Hit Spikes and Engine Sounds

[Skuzzy]

All they did for the speakers was to add a list to choose from, as they have no idea what is really connected.  Not bad, actually.

But, if you are actually hearing positional sounds through HDMI and not through the other connection, then NVidia is encoding the sound for it to be decoded by the receiver.  As they do not have a Dolby nor DTS hardware on their video card, they are doing it through software.  Very possible to do.  Just a lot of overhead.

How well does the audio match the actual video?  There has to be sync issues due to the latency inherent with HDMI encoding and decoding for both the audio and video.

Still not as efficient as a dedicated sound card could do.

[olds442]

All they did for the speakers was to add a list to choose from, as they have no idea what is really connected.  Not bad, actually.

But, if you are actually hearing positional sounds through HDMI and not through the other connection, then NVidia is encoding the sound for it to be decoded by the receiver.  As they do not have a Dolby nor DTS hardware on their video card, they are doing it through software.  Very possible to do.  Just a lot of overhead.

How well does the audio match the actual video?  There has to be sync issues due to the latency inherent with HDMI encoding and decoding for both the audio and video.

Still not as efficient as a dedicated sound card could do.

It is 8 channel PCM being output from the video card. There is no sync issues at all and if you really want I can take measurements of from time mouse click "play" till time it gets to the speakers.
When doing the standard windows speaker check it still is 8 channel PCM over the HDMI cable and the AVR still has the display read out of "5 channel pure direct". By contrast when using TOSLINK it will clearly come up as Dolby digital or DTS connect.

Not only will my video card send 8 channels over HDMI my AT&T cable box does, my laptop (with intel HD 3000 graphics), my bluray player, and a whole host of other devices also play 8 channels through HDMI in the same fashion.

Here is a good link:

http://www.avtruths.com/uncompressed.html


From the software side of things the HDMI connection is the same as the 8 wire analog connection.

[Skuzzy]

No, it is not the same as a physical link for all the channels. 

When they are interleaved, there has to be some type of decoding to put them streams back together again and then direct them to the correct speaker.  That information has to be provided to the receiver.

They have no choice but to interleave the audio streams together.  There will be latency with this. How much will depend on all the hardware involved.

Bottomline is the computer sound card is still the most efficient means of outputting sound from a computer.

[olds442]

No, it is not the same as a physical link for all the channels. 

When they are interleaved, there has to be some type of decoding to put them streams back together again and then direct them to the correct speaker.  That information has to be provided to the receiver.

They have no choice but to interleave the audio streams together.  There will be latency with this. How much will depend on all the hardware involved.

Bottomline is the computer sound card is still the most efficient means of outputting sound from a computer.

Yes it is interleaved but that is a hardware encoder/decoder. Its still LPCM and NOT a dolby trueHD or DTS HD format. Yes of course its hardware implementation is different.

Also who is to say the encoder on the video card is not a hardware decoder? NVidia has a built in H.264 encoder and who is to say the HDMI encoder is not in hardware?

[olds442]

Just to follow up:

"3) Finally, newer NVIDIA GPUs such as the GeForce G210, GeForce GT220 or GeForce GTX 480 have added an internal HD audio codec. This is like having an internal sound controller built right into the graphics card. The NVIDIA internal HD audio codec can only be used to output to an HDMI (or DisplayPort) display. It does not support analog audio. If you require analog audio (i.e. for headphones or PC speakers), you must continue to use your PC's sound controller. The NVIDIA internal HD audio codec is superior to analog audio or S/PDIF signal. While S/PDIF is limited to compressed 5.1 multi-channel, the NVIDIA HD audio codec can support additional audio channels and also support more advanced audio formats used with Blu-ray movies. If you have a graphics card with internal NVIDIA HD audio codec, simply plug the HDMI audio cable from your graphics card to your HDTV and it will carry both video and audio. No other internal or external cables are needed from your sound card for audio."

Link: http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2593/~/how-do-i-setup-my-nvidia-based-graphics-card-to-work-with-my-hdtv%3F

Also the windows knows EXACTLY what is connected to the HDMI because it lists my AVR on the HDMI output settings:



So what can we conclude from this:

1: You can send 8 channel LPCM (Linear Pulse Code Modulation) signals over HDMI and keep all positional audio.
2: NVidia has a actual hardware codec just like a sound card would have for sending sound over HDMI

[Chalenge]

The one second delay in audio doesn't bother you?

Not an ideal solution, sorry.

[olds442]

The one second delay in audio doesn't bother you?

Not an ideal solution, sorry.

Already set there is no delay in the audio that is noticeable. Where did you pull that 1 second number from

[Chalenge]

From the latency profile inherent in every video card that uses HDMI audio. It's an established fact. The audio quality may be better than an audio card (not likely) but the worst thing you could do is use the video cards audio stream while also using the onboard audio chip for voice input. It will certainly cause audio anomalies, stuttering, and freeze ups.

Sorry olds, you have not sold me on a single thing throughout the entire thread.

[olds442]

From the latency profile inherent in every video card that uses HDMI audio. It's an established fact. The audio quality may be better than an audio card (not likely) but the worst thing you could do is use the video cards audio stream while also using the onboard audio chip for voice input. It will certainly cause audio anomalies, stuttering, and freeze ups.

Sorry olds, you have not sold me on a single thing throughout the entire thread.

Provide one link that supports your views, I have provided 7 so far.

[Skuzzy]

All I have is practical experience with thousands of users. 

You will never find me telling anyone to allow the HDMI sound device to remain enabled on a video card.  They can and do cause problems when used with other sound devices, at the same time.

I have hundreds of problem reports ranging from stutters to full system lockups all traceable back to the enabled HDMI sound device.

[olds442]

All I have is practical experience with thousands of users. 

You will never find me telling anyone to allow the HDMI sound device to remain enabled on a video card.  They can and do cause problems when used with other sound devices, at the same time.

I have hundreds of problem reports ranging from stutters to full system lockups all traceable back to the enabled HDMI sound device.

And I'm not debating this, but how long ago did this happen? Sound over HDMI for GPUs used to be really bad (Especially AMD) but driver updates have almost completely fixed it. It also works on the Linux distributions I Have perfectly fine. I for one have had blue screens and lock ups with creative and ASUS sound cards (The xonar I have in my system right now is running community made drivers and not ASUS drivers). Mater of fact look up on google "Sound card driver problems" and the list goes on and on for pages of results.

Also in every game the supports it (Arma 2 and DayZ for example) I have the audio settings set for 128 sound sources and never have an issue with the audio getting garbled or anything with the GPU's audio codec.

[Chalenge]

And yet I have a Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatality running along with an external audio interface and a system reliability factor of 10/10.

If you look hard enough on the net (sometimes not so hard) you can find verification of anything you are looking for. The problem is you do not know the details of the individual systems reporting issues. How many times have we diagnosed systems here and found out it was a defective PSU? Your typical computer user will spend hundreds on CPU, RAM and motherboard, and then slap in a $30 PSU and then complain that the sound card is causing blue screens!

[Skuzzy]

Did it occur to you (olds442) the problems you are having with other sound devices is due to the HDMI sound device?  I bring this up as I have a Xonar in my computer and have never had a problem with the ASUS supplied drivers.

Yes, the problems with the HDMI sound devices continues.

[olds442]

Did it occur to you (olds442) the problems you are having with other sound devices is due to the HDMI sound device?  I bring this up as I have a Xonar in my computer and have never had a problem with the ASUS supplied drivers.

Yes, the problems with the HDMI sound devices continues.

There was no HDMI set up during the problems with the creative drivers and the HDMI was only for video with my xonar.

And yet I have a Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatality running along with an external audio interface and a system reliability factor of 10/10.

If you look hard enough on the net (sometimes not so hard) you can find verification of anything you are looking for. The problem is you do not know the details of the individual systems reporting issues. How many times have we diagnosed systems here and found out it was a defective PSU? Your typical computer user will spend hundreds on CPU, RAM and motherboard, and then slap in a $30 PSU and then complain that the sound card is causing blue screens!

Actually its quite simple.

*System runs fine with out sound card
*System crashes with sound card


Perhaps this will shed some light:




Also my system isn't exactly unstable and it has months of up time (besides windows updates).

[Chalenge]

You just proved my point olds. You can get the same list by searching for "HDMI audio causing BSOD."

People tend to buy computers off the shelf of their local Walmart, Best Buy, Office Depot, etc. and do not understand how to work on them. They will hire the kids across the street to add a hard drive, or audio card. Most standard PSUs are designed to work with one setup, and adding an extra *anything* will go over the PSUs maximum rating. So, they add a hard drive. Their game runs sluggish and people tell them they need more video horsepower, so they add a bigger video card. Now the PSU is seriously strained and even the CPU is running hot because the PSU is dropping voltage to the cooling fans. So, they add another cooling fan and meltdown occurs.

Anyway, as to Skuzzy's point. If you add a sound card to your system. . . you will need to disable the video card audio in device manager. Otherwise you will have problems of one type or another.