Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery

[JunkyII]

IMO the Hog is the best dogfighter...4 Hog that is. The 1A can keep up with a KI for a bit in the vert but will lose. But it isn't hard to sucker a KI84 into a rolling scissor...which is where the Hog has it's best performance as far as knife fights go.

[ink]

IMO the Hog is the best dogfighter...4 Hog that is. The 1A can keep up with a KI for a bit in the vert but will lose. But it isn't hard to sucker a KI84 into a rolling scissor...which is where the Hog has it's best performance as far as knife fights go.

thats why the plane really doesnt matter so much....it's the stick you fight not the plane.

when you are noob the plane is much more a part of the equation....

as you become more in tuned to ACM the plane matters less.IMO

[Zerstorer]

The Ki-84 is one of the AH "Easy Mode" poster children.  A training wheels ride and a Spit16 in drag.

Turn radius, speed and climb are pretty close to the Spitteen's.  Roll rate is damn near identical.  Guns don't hit quite as hard and have slightly inferior ballistics but that's offset by the higher rate of fire and greater ammo capacity.  Add in the damn thing tends to soak up damage like nothing short of the Hellcat or P47s can and you have a monster plane.

I took it up last month for the first time in a while and landed 4 kills (two 1v1s and one 2v1) without difficulty. 

How the Ki-84 can have a ENY higher than the bf110G is anyone's guess....I assume it's the massive firepower advantage of the 110 but that in my mind isn't sufficient to warrant the large performance differences between the two.  But then again I can say the same of the Spit IX as well.   

[DmonSlyr]

hate to disagree with my squadie....but the Ki84 will destroy the F4U's.....

yes a well driven F4U can be difficult to beat, but that can be said for most any plane.

 even E at start and if the F4U sticks around and actually fights.... the ki just needs to get it slow.... then turn it into a climbing fight...the F4U can not keep up.

anyone who flies the Ki worth his salt knows the Ki is a vertical monster...very few planes can keep up.


yes I admit I miss flying the Beast.

Idk man, it is a very close fight. You can hover turn the F4U so  nicely and you'd be very suprised how well it can climb strait up. Plus if the ki grabs your 6 , if there is room to dive you can pull a reversal maneuver while the K struggles to find lift. The thing is, most don't really fly it up to par in 1v1 fights in the MA.

As you all were saying, it does to an extent come down to the pilot.  But they each have advantages which can become costly if you cross the gun path.

The Ki-84 is one of the AH "Easy Mode" poster children.  A training wheels ride and a Spit16 in drag.

Turn radius, speed and climb are pretty close to the Spitteen's.  Roll rate is damn near identical.  Guns don't hit quite as hard and have slightly inferior ballistics but that's offset by the higher rate of fire and greater ammo capacity.  Add in the damn thing tends to soak up damage like nothing short of the Hellcat or P47s can and you have a monster plane.

I took it up last month for the first time in a while and landed 4 kills (two 1v1s and one 2v1) without difficulty. 

How the Ki-84 can have a ENY higher than the bf110G is anyone's guess....I assume it's the massive firepower advantage of the 110 but that in my mind isn't sufficient to warrant the large performance differences between the two.  But then again I can say the same of the Spit IX as well.   

It's a great plane for defense. It can't dive or really run away so that's a huuuggee disadvantage in this game. When you get ganged by 190Ds all afternoon it makes the plane tough to be really successful in.

The spit 16 and spit 8 completely destroy the KI84 at everything.

[Zerstorer]

It's a great plane for defense. It can't dive or really run away so that's a huuuggee disadvantage in this game. When you get ganged by 190Ds all afternoon it makes the plane tough to be really successful in.

Yes, but the same can be said for many "turny" rides (including the Spit16) when engaged with planes which can go faster (i.e. P51s, LA7s, etc).  Sorry...just not buying the "Doras dominate" garbage.

The spit 16 and spit 8 completely destroy the KI84 at everything.

Horse squeeze.  

- Below 12K the Ki is slightly faster without WEP and tied with the Spit16 WITH WEP (the Spit 8 is slower in both cases).

- The Ki does not climb as well as either Spit, but below 8K the differences are not vast.  At Mil power the Ki has a disadvantage of about 500 ft. per min climb on the deck, with the Ki closing the gap up to ~100-150 ft per min at about 8K.  It drops off after that.  Using WEP increases the disadvantage so mark this as an area where the Ki is clearly at a disadvantage.

- The Ki's turn radius is slightly worse without flaps.  Flaps down it basically even between the three planes.

- Ki accelerates slightly faster than the Spit 8.  The Spit 16 accelerates slightly faster thant the Ki.   The differences are around 1 sec in either case so it is again essentially an even match.

- Guns for the Spits are better, but again its not an overwhelming advantage.  Ki has a slight advantage in firing time.

I'm pulling this data from the Gonzoville AH charts:  http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php

So nice try, but sorry no dice.   The myth of the Ki being a "more difficult" ride than the upper tier Spits is a community myth.  It's stated by cartoon pilots who don't want to admit their favorite ride is really no better than the "training wheels spit noobs" ridiculed mercilessly on ch200.  

[Slash27]

The Ace of Aces hath spoken.

[Zerstorer]

The Ace of Aces hath spoken.

I'm not making any such claims. 

I can, however, read graphs and interpret data.

Do you dispute my interpretation of the data, Slashy, or just wish to throw out a few more childish barbs?

[Lusche]

- Guns for the Spits are better, but again its not an overwhelming advantage.  Ki has a slight advantage in firing time.

The Ki's guns are very close to the centerline resulting in better concentrated fire over a larger range of distances.

[Delirium]

I agree with Fulcrum on this one.

[Zerstorer]

The Ki's guns are very close to the centerline resulting in better concentrated fire over a larger range of distances.

Thanks Lusche.  I forgot about that advantage as well. 

I wonder if the calculation used to come up with the Gonzoville Lethality rating takes gun mounting into account?

[Nefarious]

Test your Ki-84 skills against F6F-5 Hellcats and F4U-1A Corsairs in Combat Challenge on October 3rd and compete for a trophy or a T-shirt. All are welcome! <S>

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,365748.0.html

http://ahevents.org/challenges/1085-combat-challenge-viii-oct-3rd-2014.html

http://ahevents.org/description.html

[Lusche]

I wonder if the calculation used to come up with the Gonzoville Lethality rating takes gun mounting into account?

No, it does not.

[DmonSlyr]

Test your Ki-84 skills against F6F-5 Hellcats and F4U-1A Corsairs in Combat Challenge on October 3rd and compete for a trophy or a T-shirt. All are welcome! <S>

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,365748.0.html

http://ahevents.org/challenges/1085-combat-challenge-viii-oct-3rd-2014.html

http://ahevents.org/description.html

I'm gonna show them what a F4U is capable of hehe.


Fullcrum any spit will out turn a ki84

Considering that both planes have similar performance attributes, wouldn't you say that the spit has a much higher overall advantage being able to turn better making it easier to be more effective in?

I will say that the KI84 is rather easy to use but it is so much fun to fly.


190Ds just ran away from everything and fly around like vulchers. I did not imply that they were dominant, however the match is uneven because the 190 can run away and I can't.

La7s, Ki84s, and spits are the 3 best defense planes in the game, they are normally the best turners. Yet they suffer in the offense as far as gaining alt and flying to an enemy base.

[Zerstorer]

I believe I stated that the two spits would outurn the Ki...but the advantage was slight. Once flaps come out the performance is basically even (the Ki has a very very small advantage full flaps). This slight disadvantage is balanced by the Ki's ability to take punishment, which I believe few would dispute.

In summary: It is a Spit...or so damn close to one the differences hardly matter. As to it  being a "fun" ride,  I don't dispute that either. Spits are fun rides!    

I could dispute several other points you make, but lets leave the discussion to the Ki thanks.

[iKo]

thats why the plane really doesnt matter so much....it's the stick you fight not the plane.

when you are noob the plane is much more a part of the equation....

as you become more in tuned to ACM the plane matters less.IMO

Exactly