Author Topic: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery  (Read 12715 times)

Offline JunkyII

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8428
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #90 on: September 24, 2014, 12:29:11 AM »
ki84 vs f4u

the better pile-it will win.  sure on paper the f4u looks really good, but the ki in game is a beast.  Like lets look at the brewster...looks terrible on paper, but a monster in game  :rofl
QFT
DFC Member
Proud Member of Pigs on the Wing
"Yikes"

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #91 on: September 24, 2014, 01:02:24 AM »
Like lets look at the brewster...looks terrible on paper, but a monster in game  :rofl
Brewster is mediocre, at best, in AH and its performance each tour demonstrates that.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline JOACH1M

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9800
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #92 on: September 24, 2014, 01:14:07 AM »
Brewster is mediocre, at best, in AH and its performance each tour demonstrates that.
The people who tend to fly the brewster aren't normally even close to being a decent stick...
FEW ~ BK's ~ AoM
Focke Wulf Me / Last Of The GOATS 🐐
ToC 2013 & 2017 Champ
R.I.P My Brothers <3

Offline JOACH1M

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9800
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #93 on: September 24, 2014, 01:15:24 AM »
like bruh, if i see a brewster at 10k I run for the hills.  :rofl :rofl :rofl :bolt: :airplane:
FEW ~ BK's ~ AoM
Focke Wulf Me / Last Of The GOATS 🐐
ToC 2013 & 2017 Champ
R.I.P My Brothers <3

Offline bozon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6037
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #94 on: September 24, 2014, 01:56:13 AM »
ki84 vs f4u

the better pile-it will win.  sure on paper the f4u looks really good, but the ki in game is a beast.  Like lets look at the brewster...looks terrible on paper, but a monster in game  :rofl
Brewster's need la7s and p51s around to engage the enemy, then the Brews arrive and saddle up like heroes. If there are only brews around they are pretty useless.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline GhostCDB

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1730
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #95 on: September 24, 2014, 01:58:27 AM »
Brewster pilots usually suck and haven't the slightest idea of what a throttle control looks like, so I let them get D200 spraying and I kill throttle and watch em fly by and snap roll their selves into the ground attempting to escape.

 :rolleyes:
Top Gun

Offline Zerstorer

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1192
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #96 on: September 24, 2014, 08:14:26 AM »
I've never had a problem killing Brewsters.  

For those of you who would like to know the secret of my success, I've provided a flowchart:


  Stay fast  <----------
      |                          |
      |
      V                          |
      
  One pass  
      |                          |
      |                        
      V
                                 |
  30mm shot              
      |                   Reset Fight
      |
      V                         |
      ^                        
   /      \                     |
     Hit?    - - - No - - -
   \      /
      V    
      |
      |
    Yes
      |
      |
      V

    POOF  
      |
      |
      |
      V
   Next?


I realize this is kinda like McDonalds giving away the recipe for the Big Mac's "Secret Sauce", but hey....I'm willing to go that extra mile for the community.   :D

I hope this helps!   :aok
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 08:18:27 AM by Zerstorer »
The Once and Former Fulcrum

In my experience, nothing is ever what it seems to be, but everything is exactly what it is.

Offline Skyyr

  • persona non grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #97 on: September 24, 2014, 08:33:48 AM »
it doesn't need further explaining...just fly one for a tour and you will find this weakness very quickly.

I've flown one... and I know exactly why it behaves the way it does, which has nothing to do with subpar performance. I also know your statement is false, which is why I've asked you to substantiate your claim. The burden of proof lies on you to prove the Ki-84 behaves worse than average (bottom 33-40% or so of all fighter aircraft) in regards to turn rate, turn radius, and energy retention.
Skyyr

Tours:
166 - 190
198 - 204
218 - 220
286 - 287
290 - 296

nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
A few moments later...

vs Shane: 30-11

KOTH Wins: 6, Egos Broken: 1000+

Mmmmm... tears.

Offline Skyyr

  • persona non grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #98 on: September 24, 2014, 08:46:27 AM »
Skyyr

Tours:
166 - 190
198 - 204
218 - 220
286 - 287
290 - 296

nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
A few moments later...

vs Shane: 30-11

KOTH Wins: 6, Egos Broken: 1000+

Mmmmm... tears.

Offline Triton28

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2248
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #99 on: September 24, 2014, 09:01:33 AM »
I've flown one... and I know exactly why it behaves the way it does, which has nothing to do with subpar performance. I also know your statement is false, which is why I've asked you to substantiate your claim. The burden of proof lies on you to prove the Ki-84 behaves worse than average (bottom 33-40% or so of all fighter aircraft) in regards to turn rate, turn radius, and energy retention.

I thought you said you wanted him to explain his statement about high speed maneuverability?   :headscratch:

Have you ever recorded a kill in the MA in a Ki-84?

Fighting spirit one must have. Even if a man lacks some of the other qualifications, he can often make up for it in fighting spirit. -Robin Olds
      -AoM-


Offline Skyyr

  • persona non grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2052
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #100 on: September 24, 2014, 09:56:56 AM »
I thought you said you wanted him to explain his statement about high speed maneuverability?   :headscratch:

I asked him to explain in quantifiable, verifiable terms. He has yet to do that.

Claiming "no high speed maneuverability" is not only false, it's also entirely subjective and useless in the course of a discussion such as this. Had he actually pulled the plane performance statistics, he'd find that the Ki-84 falls squarely in the middle of high-speed plane performance and is actually very average.

Further, it's not a lack of high-speed maneuverability that makes the aircraft appear to turn poorly, but rather the fact that the Ki does not give up E easily. This makes it hard to slow down the aircraft to its optimal turning airspeed because it doesn't bleed very much E in turns. However, this is actually a desired trait in turnfighting aircraft... and the aircraft would not handle well at all if it didn't retain its E in this manner. Therefore, it actually has good high speed maneuverability, it simply doesn't bleed E quickly enough to use most overshoot tactics.

Complaining about this is akin to complaining that a D9 has horrible turning at low speed; the D9 has horrible turning at all speeds (and if you took time to generate for the plane, you'd find it's 3rd or 4th worst-turning aircraft in the game). However, it dumps speed so quickly that it can cause overshoots easily, as well as perform some stall maneuvers, giving the illusion it turns well because you can drop airspeed quickly at high speed. At low speed, you have no excess E to drop and its poor turning becomes apparent. This is a side effect of high wing-loading, just as a lack of speed loss is a side-effect of low-wing-loading on aircraft like the Ki-84.

All of that said, I'm not sure why people are trying to make the Ki out to be some kind of skilled plane to fly by claiming it has horrible performance in certain realms of flight. It's almost laughable, as if they're trying to preemptively save their man card. If people actually cared about planes that took skill to fly, they'd be in P-40's. This is just another thread where people are trying to make excuses for their plane of choice, as we all do; the only difference here is that it seems the people that fly the Ki can't even properly explain their plane performance.

Have you ever recorded a kill in the MA in a Ki-84?

Yes, but even if I hadn't, it has nothing to do with someone else having to verify their claims.
Skyyr

Tours:
166 - 190
198 - 204
218 - 220
286 - 287
290 - 296

nrshida: "I almost beat Skyyr after he took a 6 year break!"
A few moments later...

vs Shane: 30-11

KOTH Wins: 6, Egos Broken: 1000+

Mmmmm... tears.

Offline Zerstorer

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1192
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #101 on: September 24, 2014, 10:34:58 AM »
All of that said, I'm not sure why people are trying to make the Ki out to be some kind of skilled plane to fly by claiming it has horrible performance in certain realms of flight. It's almost laughable, as if they're trying to preemptively save their man card. If people actually cared about planes that took skill to fly, they'd be in P-40's. This is just another thread where people are trying to make excuses for their plane of choice, as we all do; the only difference here is that it seems the people that fly the Ki can't even properly explain their plane performance.

Yep.  Pretty much the point I was making as well. 

The Once and Former Fulcrum

In my experience, nothing is ever what it seems to be, but everything is exactly what it is.

Offline caldera

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6437
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #102 on: September 24, 2014, 10:55:56 AM »
Well of course you find it amazing, it is basically a Japanese Spixteen, or possibly even better than that:

On top of the flying qualities, they seem to absorb about as much ammo as a P47.


Ki-84 was my trainer.  It is awesome, but not quite as awesome as the Spit XVI.  Glad there aren't as many of them in the cartoon skies.  :uhoh


"Then out spake brave Horatius, the Captain of the gate:
 To every man upon this earth, death cometh soon or late.
 And how can man die better, than facing fearful odds.
 For the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods."

Offline DmonSlyr

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6646
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #103 on: September 24, 2014, 11:03:14 AM »
No matter how skilled anyone in this game thinks they are, there is really no way to be a monster killer In  p-40 in the Late War.  I'm not gonna say it's impossible, or can't be done. But the plane just ain't good enough to handle the hoard.
The Damned(est. 1988)
-=Army of Muppets=-
2014 & 2018 KoTH ToC Champion

Offline Latrobe

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5975
Re: Ki-84 vs. Brain Surgery
« Reply #104 on: September 24, 2014, 11:04:27 AM »
No matter how skilled anyone in this game thinks they are, there is really no way to be a monster killer In  p-40 in the Late War.  I'm not gonna say it's impossible, or can't be done. But the plane just ain't good enough to handle the hoard.

That sounds like a wicked fun challenge! Almost makes me want to resub just to do that.  :devil