Author Topic: HQ and radar with low numbers  (Read 6954 times)

Offline Arlo

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #75 on: September 28, 2014, 02:32:49 PM »

"drag HT in?"

So your proposal of redesigning all maps ain't? Because that's what it comes down to, if you want to "surrounding the HQ with dar rings, ack and fields)" they have to do exactly that. And it's even more work than just upping the HQ hardness or simply untie the connection to the City.

Players design maps. HT approves or disapproves the design. Players CAN address this.

Offline Lusche

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #76 on: September 28, 2014, 02:35:13 PM »
Players design maps. HT approves or disapproves the design.

1) Not all maps have been made by players
2) Such changes to maps as proposed have to be done by HTC, not by the player who designed them in the first place (Many of those original map designers aren't even with AH anymore)
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Offline Arlo

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2014, 02:37:39 PM »
Fine. Again, i don't see the crisis. 'All HT's fault and the reason the game will die.' doesn't move me. I'm thinking I've said all I really oughta in this thread. Good luck to everyone who still feels the need to pursue this.  :) :salute :cheers:

Offline Gman

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #78 on: September 28, 2014, 02:56:31 PM »
Okay Arlo, based on that, why is the game dying?  And don't say that it isn't, any game that a few years ago had 500+ playing on Titanic Tuesday, even more with split arenas, and now has typically 220 on those nights, sometimes less, I check every night, and oft times at 9pm central there is 180 or less.  

Everything, including the maps, are controlled by HTC.  Fester did the most recent map addition.  How long did it take him to get it approved after it was submitted?  And even though by all accounts it's an excellent map, has that helped bring the numbers back up?

This particular HQ/Dar/Numbers issue is just one symptom in a patient with dozens of problems contributing to its failing health.  The one thing all of these symptoms and problems have in common as they can only be treated by the intervention of one party - HTC.  These non stop posts and threads about problems have been here since the beginning, but it's reached a crescendo in the last year or so, a trend that has matched the falling numbers on a chart (Lusche, want to make a chart showing increase in complaint/suggestion threads as they relate to falling numbers?).  My point is that HTC is the only thing standing in the way of making changes to stem the flow of outgoing players, and back to my earlier question in the thread, how many changes have been implemented in the last few years?  Lusche says only one in 2012, and a pretty minor one at that.

Arlo, you sound much like HTC when they choose to engage as they have in past threads like this (12 hour etc).  It's the players problems, if they don't like it, adapt or leave, but don't blame HTC for any of the problems.  That's ridiculous IMO, if your customers want something different, and you want to stay in business, you give it to them.  If you choose not to, and instead put the onus and blame on them...well, the current numbers are the result of that.  And this in a situation where there is no direct competition, it's not like this is Pepsi and if Pepsi won't change their flavor to what customers want, there's always Coke.  HTC has the advantage of being the only game in town for this genre, yet still, massive outflux of players in the last few years.

I for one don't necessarily believe the game will "die", but it'll certainly become less fun for those around playing it still, if the numbers continue to slide, or even just stabilize where they are.  None of us know HTC's financial position, it's possible they have the means to keep this open even if nobody subscribed due to other revenue streams.  Even if that IS the case, why would anyone choose to not intercede and make changes if for no other reason to chart the results in terms of subscribers leaving/staying, is beyond me.  I know that in my line of work, when a crisis/ambush occurs, the very worst thing you can choose to do is nothing.  Nothing is what we've seen, vis a vis changes to the framework of the gameplay, now for several years, as like I said, somebody (Lusche) who would know says that there has been one slight change in recent memory, since the huge slide in subscriber numbers started at least.


The reason this frustrates me is I remember a very different HTC back in the beta and first years of the game.  Active, friendly participation regarding gameplay mechanics, and aircraft models, and the like.  Now, instead we get fights between HTC and members, threats of PNG/suspension if continued pressing of points and arguing continues, and a lot of plain old radio silence so far as intentions and plans go.  It's gone from positive progressive to extremely negative and apathetic.  Just my opinion.  But based on the hundreds of threads like this, I know I'm not the only one with this opinion.

I would finish with this:  
Quote
Fine. Again, i don't see the crisis
I would retort that looking at the average numbers in the MA from just a couple/few years back to now, if you don't see a crisis, you just aren't paying attention.  This little thread about this little issue may not seen to be a "crisis" by Arlo's definition, and maybe he's right.  But add a number of these issues together, and that's precisely the problem IMO - many little issues make big issues, issues that HTC has not responded to; so their customers do instead.  By leaving.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 03:09:49 PM by Gman »

Offline Canspec

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #79 on: September 28, 2014, 04:11:50 PM »
I think there are alot of people on the sidelines with active accounts waiting for the new model to come out, perhaps with some of the changes that have been thrown around in here. If it is not an improvement in both visual and gameplay.....considering the monthly charge for the game.....more will leave.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #80 on: September 28, 2014, 04:27:19 PM »
The reason this frustrates me is I remember a very different HTC back in the beta and first years of the game.  Active, friendly participation regarding gameplay mechanics, and aircraft models, and the like.

You get frustrated a lot easier than I do. Right now Dale is busting his butt to get a graphic update completed for the players that went on about THAT being the reason the game doesn't have numbers. This is an update I knew would take more time and resources than adding a plane or changing an arena setting, then changing it again when the players still weren't happy. This is an update I (and several others) didn't ask for or need (though others made enough noise for it). But it's happening. It's taking a lot of effort to finish. I'll enjoy it just like you will but, honestly, if Dale jumped through his own backside every time a thread like this surfaced he'd go crazy and you really wouldn't have this game to complain about, anymore.

A very different HTC. I'll keep that in mind my next visit to HTC inc. (I really do need to visit more often. They will take the time to give a tour and even show how hard they are working to keep the customer base happy. Always a good visit.)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 04:28:53 PM by Arlo »

Offline rvflyer

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #81 on: September 28, 2014, 04:50:52 PM »

Bingo.

Same whiners over and over again, I see more people leaving this game from the treatment they get on 200 from the same people that whine about how the game is played.  :bhead
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Offline Lusche

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #82 on: September 28, 2014, 05:06:17 PM »
Okay Arlo, based on that, why is the game dying?

Not because of the HQ. ;)

And not because of the GV control system, the lack of arena caps, the retirement of Trinity, the WW1 arena, the 12h rule, the collision model or any other singular reason that has has been brought up in this context in the past.
And possibly not even because of me  :noid
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Offline Gman

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #83 on: September 28, 2014, 05:14:40 PM »
Quote
I see more people leaving this game from the treatment they get on 200 from the same people that whine about how the game is played

And again, that's something HTC could do something about if it chose to act, but hasn't.  

So far as the new "update", don't make out like this all of a sudden fell into HTC's lap, that perhaps now, a major update, years and years after the last one, is somehow some hardship for them, and a massive bonus all the players should be appreciating.  Compare HTC to any other subscription game - the improvements and changes are extremely few and far between compared to any of them, so HTC certainly isn't being harshly treated by it's customers in this regard.  The graphics/engine/whatever update is just one thing on a long list of complaints and issues brought up in a consistent manner from customers.  FYI I'm not one of them, as I haven't really played much in the last few years, just been a keen observer of the bbs and occasionally the MA.  I'm just saying it as I'm seeing it, especially the HTC/customer relationship regarding the bbs.  The reduced numbers nobody can argue about, and I again ask Arlo, if not all these various issues that action is never or at best rarely taken, then what is the cause, in an environment where there is NO competition out there for the product?

Again, there are many reasons for the collapse of the player base, few if any the players faults themselves, save perhaps the 200 "meanies" that make people leave, which again, is just another issue of many that hasn't seen any visible action taken to rectify or attempt to change. 
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 05:22:29 PM by Gman »

Offline Arlo

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #84 on: September 28, 2014, 05:21:07 PM »
Not because of the HQ. ;)

And not because of the GV control system, the lack of arena caps, the retirement of Trinity, the WW1 arena, the 12h rule, the collision model or any other singular reason that has has been brought up in this context in the past.
And possibly not even because of me  :noid

Don't forget:

Clouds
Can't squelch country vox
Spies
Channel 200
France being ignored

I'd go so far as to not blame all of it put together. Sometimes people can't afford even $15 a month. Sometimes life takes a turn. A lot of 'free to play' stuff surfaced and sometimes it'll draw away players even if the game isn't nearly as well designed as AH.

And yes, there may be a lot of players, like me, that just don't live in the arenas (anymore). It really is hard to determine how many active accounts exist just because you never see max capacity anymore.

Offline Arlo

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #85 on: September 28, 2014, 05:23:42 PM »
And again, that's something HTC could do something about if it chose to act, but hasn't.  

*scratches head*

What do you suggest? There are just as many fans of channel 200. That becomes a choice, not a solution.

And no, I stopped tuning 200 years back. If a new (or even old) player uses that as an excuse to leave, I've got a solution for them that doesn't require HT.  :)

Offline Gman

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #86 on: September 28, 2014, 05:25:07 PM »
IF all that is true Arlo, explain Eve or any of the other games that have been around 8+ years or more like AH which cost the same amount.  Why have these reasons you've given not affected their numbers, in fact, many such subscription games are flourishing despite current economics, life taking turns, and whatever else.  And some of these games face fierce competition in the same genre, where again, AH no longer has WB, FB, or AW to compete with.

edit - the "wah 200 made me quit" proponents would be silenced if there was 24/7 active human moderation on channel 200.  All the aforementioned other subscription massively multilayer games do it.  I'm not a subscriber to the theory that the huge numbers lost in the MA have much to do with "200 made me cry and feel bad about myself, so I quit".  I'm sure there are a few players who have thin enough skin that it was a major reason for them unsubbing, but even then, as Arlo just stated, there is the detune option available.  It wouldn't be necessary with 24/7 moderation, at least not nearly as much by those that claim to be so bothered about it.

Again, there are many possible actions that can or could have been taken in the MA to respond to the huge numbers of complaints in the last few years, yet the only one that has happened was a slight strat tuning in 2012.  

See I agree on some issues, they are largely subjective, spies, 200 meanies, and so on.  There are numerous other issues, and even including the ones I personally feel from my perspective, that could have some sort of action taken, even in just a trial/temporary fashion.  Instead, there is nothing, no actions taken at all.  Numbers keep reducing themselves.

I've been saying for a while that the new update will bring many out of the woodwork.  A short term spike in numbers will quiet a lot of the problems down, as more numbers = less issues IMO at least.  The question is will these numbers have staying power, or will it just devolve back into a better looking version of what's going on now?  I'll be happy for it to be the former, but I fear it'll be the latter.  Then what.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 05:33:55 PM by Gman »

Offline Arlo

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #87 on: September 28, 2014, 05:34:48 PM »
IF all that is true Arlo, explain Eve or any of the other games that have been around 8+ years or more like AH which cost the same amount.  Why have these reasons you've given not affected their numbers, in fact, many such subscription games are flourishing despite current economics, life taking turns, and whatever else.  

This is too easy. Eve online isn't a WWI/WWII dog-fighting sim (though it may be argued tat AH is more than). Our nich is typically older and smaller than EVE's. Same can be said for any other game outside AH's niche/genre. Even WT is a loose comparison. it's an arcade clicky pretty pic free-to-play (we'll get ya on the 'micro-purchase' anyway) game.

AH is the survivor of the competition with Warbirds and Fighter Ace.

Any game is as strong as it's supporters. I support this game.

Offline MrKrabs

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #88 on: September 28, 2014, 05:38:23 PM »
This thread gets sadder by the minute...

The boiling pot is put away and the crab has gone back to sea...

Offline Coalcat1

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Re: HQ and radar with low numbers
« Reply #89 on: September 28, 2014, 05:49:58 PM »
This thread gets sadder by the minute...


It's even worse when you realize it's only 2 people going at it with their shades  :rofl