P-38J vs P38L Flight Performance in AH

[GScholz]

According to Mosq's sustained turn list they're both equal in turn without flaps. With flaps the L turns slightly better, but I guess it's well with the margin of error.

[Randy1]

My bet is, that no matter how hard you try, the J will still out maneuver the L. In my experience it is like fighting the K4 vs the G14, while the K4 is faster all around, the G14 seems to out maneuver the K4 slightly.

I got $50 on it!

 I think you are right but I am trying to give each theory a go.

[Ack-Ack]

According to Mosq's sustained turn list they're both equal in turn without flaps. With flaps the L turns slightly better, but I guess it's well with the margin of error.

and Mosq's list is correct.

ack-ack

[Randy1]

According to Mosq's sustained turn list they're both equal in turn without flaps. With flaps the L turns slightly better, but I guess it's well with the margin of error.

The sustained turn performance between the J and L was not in question.  It is the ability to move the two planes around in low speed situations that is in question.

It could be the L is modeled correctly and the simulation coding used to mimic stiffer, nonboosted ailerons in the J model may offer a small benefit in slow speed maneuvers.  

Again, I have zero proof of any of this so I have no argument with those that say it is bunk.

Delirum's post quoting a WW2 P-38 pilot having switched from a nonboosted plane to a boosted plane suggest the AH simulation is dead-solid-perfect.  The question then is why would the nonboosted plane seem to fly lighter than the boosted plane?

[Randy1]

Anybody read this document?

DSIR 23/15439
Description:    

Lockheed P38 Lightning aircraft fitted with power boosted ailerons: brief handling trials

[FLS]

Randy1 "flying lighter" does not describe anything unless you're reducing weight which is not the case here. We experience a visual representation of pitch, roll, yaw, and acceleration. Those can all be measured and compared. What we know is different between the J and L models is the degree the aileron deflection is reduced at high speeds.

[Mister Fork]

What is the weight of both the J and L? Are the essentially the same bird otherwise other than the L is the improved version?

[FLS]

The weights in the hanger are the same when the loads match. The significant differences between the late model J and the L are the dive flaps and aileron boost. The most noticeable performance difference in AH after the high speed roll rate has been the snap roll behavior.

[Randy1]

Randy1 "flying lighter" does not describe anything unless you're reducing weight which is not the case here. We experience a visual representation of pitch, roll, yaw, and acceleration. Those can all be measured and compared. What we know is different between the J and L models is the degree the aileron deflection is reduced at high speeds.

Flying lighter is just a descriptive phase for the difference in the J model meaning the J model flies as if it were lighter.

[FLS]

Flying lighter is just a descriptive phase for the difference in the J model meaning the J model flies as if it were lighter.

Aren't you just repeating the phrase?  Actually flying as if it was lighter would be measurable in climb rate and turn rate. The known difference in handling is the roll rate. I assume the roll inertia is the same because the total weight is the same but the difference in snap rolls makes me wonder what causes it.

[Randy1]

Aren't you just repeating the phrase?  Actually flying as if it was lighter would be measurable in climb rate and turn rate. The known difference in handling is the roll rate. I assume the roll inertia is the same because the total weight is the same but the difference in snap rolls makes me wonder what causes it.

Was the L model the first P-38 with a bit larger fuel tanks?  I think each wing leading edge tank had an addtional 55 gallons

[FLS]

The late model J's also have the additional wing tanks. Note the weights and fuel capacities are the same.

[colmbo]

...the difference in snap rolls makes me wonder what causes it.

I haven't been able to see a difference in handling yet.  What is it you're seeing?

[save]

38L follow in to a dive up to about 500-ish, whereas 38j normally pull out earlier.

[FLS]

I haven't been able to see a difference in handling yet.  What is it you're seeing?

The 38J  seems to start and stop a snap roll more easily. A few years ago I wasn't able to get more than a quarter roll from the L but it's better now. I don't know if the flight model changed or I did something differently but I couldn't get both models to respond the same way . I was surprised when I tried it again and it worked. It's still a puzzle.