Author Topic: 262 anti-bomber tatics  (Read 898 times)

Offline wpeters

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262 anti-bomber tatics
« on: November 04, 2014, 11:32:41 AM »
These tactics used in WWll would be suicidal today.  What are your thoughts.


Anti-bomber tactics


The Me 262 was so fast that German pilots needed new tactics to attack American bombers. In the head-on attack, the closing speed, of about 320 m per second (350 yd), was too high for accurate shooting. Even from astern, the closing speed was too great to use the short-ranged 30 mm cannon to maximum effect. Therefore, a roller-coaster attack was devised. The 262s approached from astern and about 1,800 m higher (5,900 ft) than the bombers. From about 5 km behind (3.1 mi), they went into a shallow dive that took them through the escort fighters with little risk of interception. When they were about 1.5 km astern (0.93 mi) and 450 metres (1,480 ft) below the bombers, they pulled up sharply to reduce their excess speed. On levelling off, they were 1,000 m astern (1,100 yd) and overtaking the bombers at about 150 km/h (93 mph), well placed to attack them.[43]

Since the 30mm MK 108 cannon's short barrels and low muzzle velocity of 540 m/s (1,800 ft/s) rendered it inaccurate beyond 600 m (660 yd), coupled with the jet's velocity, which required breaking off at 200 m (220 yd) to avoid colliding with the target, Me 262 pilots normally commenced firing at 500 m (550 yd).[44] Allied bomber gunners found their electric gun turrets had problems tracking the jets. Target acquisition was difficult because the jets closed into firing range quickly and remained in firing position only briefly, using their standard attack profile, which proved more effective.[citation needed]


Me 262 with R4M underwing rockets on display at the Technikmuseum Speyer, Germany.
Captain Eric Brown, Chief Naval Test Pilot and C.O. Captured Enemy Aircraft Flight Royal Aircraft Establishment, who tested the Me 262 noted: "This was a Blitzkrieg aircraft. You whack in at your bomber. It was never meant to be a dogfighter, it was meant to be a destroyer of bombers... The great problem with it was it did not have dive brakes. For example, if you want to fight and destroy a B-17, you come in on a dive. The 30mm cannon were not so accurate beyond 600 meters. So you normally came in at 600 yards and would open fire on your B-17. And your closing speed was still high and since you had to break away at 200 meters to avoid a collision, you only had two seconds firing time. Now, in two seconds, you can't sight. You can fire randomly and hope for the best. If you want to sight and fire, you need to double that time to four seconds. And with dive brakes, you could have done that."[44]
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Offline Delirium

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Re: 262 anti-bomber tatics
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2014, 12:06:41 PM »
Some tactics are not advisable in AH, simply because the average AH pilot (read bomber pilot) has more experience and better aim. In a 262 would recommend a high angle off tail approach from above or beneath to give the gunner as many variables as possible to help defeat his aim.
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Offline lyric1

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Re: 262 anti-bomber tatics
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2014, 12:22:35 PM »
262's #1 method for shooting down bombers were rockets.
Cannons were used when all else failed.

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Offline Gman

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Re: 262 anti-bomber tatics
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2014, 03:24:40 PM »
I think in AH it's much easier to shoot a mounted .50 than in RL as well.  I've never fired a 50 while airborne, but have fired them plenty from various vehicle mounts.  Hitting a target like a plane at 500 yards that was on the ground, and not moving, with the first few bursts is difficult enough.  To hit it enough to blow it away, harder still.  Now factor in that you would be moving at 150 mph or more, and the target at double that or better.  We're spoiled in the virtual world with a very stable sight picture and accurate stream of fire for our .50s, as to do the above in RL is very, very difficult.  

So, I agree with the posts above, in AH things are very deadly as there isn't all the factors and difficulties of MG firing, both for  gameplay and likely other reasons. Based on this reality we have tactics here that work, that may not have been too smart in WW2, and vice versa.

Now that it's been brought up, I do wish we would get the variant with the R4M 262 rockets someday, it'd be neat to see how those would work in game here.  It'd be cool to see a scenario of dozens of bombers getting dozens of rockets launched into it by jets.

Offline wpeters

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Re: 262 anti-bomber tatics
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2014, 03:28:47 PM »

Now that it's been brought up, I do wish we would get the variant with the R4M 262 rockets someday, it'd be neat to see how those would work in game here.  It'd be cool to see a scenario of dozens of bombers getting dozens of rockets launched into it by jets.


I agree. Bet you could use them air to ground also.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: 262 anti-bomber tatics
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2014, 03:48:14 PM »
Now that it's been brought up, I do wish we would get the variant with the R4M 262 rockets someday, it'd be neat to see how those would work in game here.  It'd be cool to see a scenario of dozens of bombers getting dozens of rockets launched into it by jets.


I don't think that would work without a seperate perked ords system (as mentioned by HTC many years ago) - or the already high perk price for the Me 262 would have to be increased by a massive amount.
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Offline EagleDNY

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Re: 262 anti-bomber tatics
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2014, 02:22:17 PM »
Coming up the tail of B-17s from below at 100mph closing speed really throws out all the advantages that the 262 has over the bomber.   Try that on me and you are going to be seeing the wrong end of a lot of .50 cal.

Best tactics I see used against me (and that I now use against others) were attacks coming straight down from the top, or fast passes along the front quarter and just leading the bombers by a good margin until you see hits.   Guys that zig zag fast along the rear quarter usually do score hits, but I also usually get a batch of .50 cal back into them at the same time.   It works, but you will usually be heading back home smoking after one kill. 

Offline MK-84

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Re: 262 anti-bomber tatics
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2014, 12:14:13 AM »
     Lancs I believe the best tactic is to build a tremendous amount of speed and attack from the rear from 2k below them. Just as you pass underneath and slightly ahead you pull hard up. This gives you a belly shot of all three bombers. By using the 262's exceptional rudder authority you can hose down the entire box.  You need to watch your speed because likely you will not get all three and you do not want to be left wallowing at the top of your zoom. So it is paramount you start your attack fast. Like 500+ fast. At an attack speed of 450 you lose too much speed in your zoom climb to be risking a fire from both the top and tail turret.

     Against B17's and B24's, and even B26's  It is much harder. Any attack is risky. A attack from the 6 is absolutely stupid, but that holds true for any fighter.  The single most effective way to attack these aircraft by far is when the pilot is distracted.  Use everything you know as an advantage.  Is the enemy just taking off and collecting his drones? while taking off does he need to set auto-climb to avoid collision with terrain.  Are you attacking when a pilot is likely to be afk? Are they preoccupied with other aircraft?  One of the most important: are they in their bombsights? Regardless of anything, you are still a 262 and many people will ignore everything just to destroy you.  If you are not certain of anything listed above there are really only three ways to make a successful attack. These can be combined.
     Minimize your time within their gun range.
     Minimize the amount of guns the enemy can point at you.
     Maneuver yourself to be as difficult to hit within the latter two parameters.
With a fully aware and unoccupied enemy I think the best solution is this:
     Attack from the front or sides to limit your time in their gun range, Attack from a dissimilar altitude so that less guns can be brought to bear, and to confuse the enemy into what turret to use. Be unpredictable! Do not let them know what gun position is best against you until it is too late.  The 262 has a wonderful rudder at high speed, use that to slew your aircraft into a firing solution.  Skidding your aircraft into an attack will make you very hard to hit.
Above all, go in as fast as it is controllable.

Offline Tumor

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Re: 262 anti-bomber tatics
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2014, 02:00:09 AM »
These tactics used in WWll would be suicidal today.  What are your thoughts.


hmmmm.  Real life historical tactics and Aces High tactics have exactly ~nothing~ to do with each other.
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