Author Topic: Totaled a Truck.  (Read 1556 times)

Offline Bodhi

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8698
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2015, 12:31:05 AM »
When it comes to driving on ICE, 4WD doesn't help.   Siping on tires, does a little bit.

I would beg to differ.  4WD makes a huge difference on Ice, but it requires you to drive in a responsible manner. 
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23046
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2015, 02:27:45 AM »
I would beg to differ.  4WD makes a huge difference on Ice, but it requires you to drive in a responsible manner. 
Exactly.  4WD makes a huge difference compared to 2WD to those who understand it.  It makes little difference to those who think it allows them to drive normally.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6863
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2015, 08:03:49 AM »
I found a manual transmission also helped. (15yrs driving a 4WD)

The number of 4WDs in accidents after the 1st snowfall is hilarious. They weren't driving responsibly.

Offline Masherbrum

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22408
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2015, 08:24:28 AM »
To think the WRC drivers who instruct others, have been doing it wrong for decades.    :rofl
-=Most Wanted=-

FSO Squad 412th FNVG
http://worldfamousfridaynighters.com/
Co-Founder of DFC

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11633
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2015, 08:35:05 AM »
The problem with 4WD is that due to its higher inertia forces when you lose control of a 4WD it's much harder to control than a sliding 2WD one.

But this problem should affect only very crude and old 4WD models which lack ESP. I pushed my Mercedes 4Matic and Jeep Commander to four wheel slides regularly but after a second of 'crunch crunch brakes' later the car was going steady again.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2015, 11:58:39 AM »
The problem with 4WD is that due to its higher inertia forces when you lose control of a 4WD it's much harder to control than a sliding 2WD one.

But this problem should affect only very crude and old 4WD models which lack ESP. I pushed my Mercedes 4Matic and Jeep Commander to four wheel slides regularly but after a second of 'crunch crunch brakes' later the car was going steady again.

Back on '08, I bought a new Jeep Wrangler. I left it unmodified for the first year. Even with the factory Goodyear Wrangler SR-A tires, it was stellar in snow. Largely due to the ESP and traction control. In 6" of snow, you just mash the go-pedal to the floor and allow the computer to regulate power and control tire slippage. No drama, not even a hint of wheel spin... It just went... Braking was another story, but the ESP and ABS did their job, and stopping, while long in distance, was straight and well controlled.

I was driving down a county road, a divided roadway, but not limited access. Plenty of intersections with traffic lights. It was snowing heavily and there was about 6" of wet, slushy snow on the road surface. No plows had been seen yet. I was stopped at a light at the entrance to a shopping mall. A blue Subaru WRX STi chugs up alongside. The light changed to green and the WRX inched forward. Its tires were clearly not working in the snow, probably because they were a summer compound and tread design. You could see and hear the traction control working to get a bite in the snow. As the Subaru struggled to get underway, I simply pushed down the throttle pedal and left. Within about 10 seconds, I was doing 40 mph and the WRX was barely across the intersection. I have seen this many times. Ultimately, it comes down to two factors... Electronics and tires, especially tires. The best traction control system on earth doesn't help when the tires won't work. The electronics can't control traction if there isn't any traction to control....

The next winter saw the Jeep fitted with a set of Cooper S/T hybrid tires. Hybrids offer an outer tread design like a very high void mud-terrain tire, while the inner tread is more of an all-terrain type. The combination works well on any surface or conditions. Not as good in deep mud as the mud-terrain, they are much better than those in winter conditions.

Almost three years ago, we had a major storm that dropped over 30 inches of very cold, dry snow. Throughout the area, thousands of cars and SUVs were stuck on the roads. Over two feet had fallen in less than three hours, and less than a foot had been predicted by the weather guessers. Long Island can have tremendous blizzards. Being an island on the Atlantic coast, there is a limitless supply of moisture to fuel storms. Almost no roads had been plowed. The depth of the snow made it impossible for light trucks to move it. Thus, most of the contract plow drivers and their pick-up trucks were useless. The majority of those could not even get out of their own neighborhoods. Thus, clearing the roads became the job of large, multi-axle trucks and earth moving front loaders and payloaders. The problem was, there were very few of those relative to the tens of thousands of miles of local roads. Compounding the problem were the many abandoned cars and SUVs blocking the roads and intersections. This storm generated high winds as well. Some roads may have snow coverage of less than a foot in one section, and drifts higher than 6 feet in other areas. Snow depth was utterly non-uniform. Ultimately, it was a massive problem for the local towns and counties to deal with. Some neighborhoods were not plowed for four days.

Hours after the snow stopped falling, most locals had their driveways cleared. I have a large, powerful industrial type of snow thrower (made by Husqvarna). Within three hours, my large driveway was cleared down to the tarmac. I even cleared the street in front of my house, so that I could move the cars into the road to finish the driveway. I pulled the two cars into the driveway and parked the Jeep at the bottom. As I finished this task, I saw a large Ford F-350, quadcab pick-up struggling down the road. The driver was blasting forward through the snow until the truck bogged. Then we would back up and attack the snow again. I immediately recognized this as a very poor technique. The driver risks climbing on top of the snow, unloading the tires and getting stuck. About 50 feet short of where I had cleared the road, he did precisely that. The big diesel V8 howled, the tires spun, but he was stuck fast. The driver climbs out and struggling to walk in waist-deep snow, starts to shovel around the wheels. It does no good. I took the snow thrower out of the garage, and started clearing the snow in front of the big Ford. It took about 20 minutes to carve a wide, snow-free path to the front bumper of the truck. Even so, the Ford was going nowhere for now. I chugged the snow thrower up the slope of the driveway, back into the garage. Grabbing my recovery strap, I pulled my Jeep into the road and backed down the clear path I had made. I looped the strap through a shackle on the Jeep and secured it to the Ford. Using low range and locking my differentials, I pulled the truck from its snow-bound prison.

I offered the Ford driver some solid advice. I told him that his method of driving was not a good one. I also told him that his highway type of truck tires were not very good in this type of deep snow. He explained that he really had to get to work. My opinion was that he should make a three-point u-turn in the clearing I had made, and drive back to his house in his own tracks and stay there until the road was plowed. He declined my advice. Using the 100 or so feet of cleared road, he powered ahead, building speed and crashed into the snow again. The Ford went barely 50 yards, when it rode up on the snow as before and came to a halt. My good deed quota for the day was met. I wasn't going to spend another two hours getting him free again. He had his opportunity to go home, and he made yet another bad decision. I offered to drive him home in the Jeep. He declined that too, and walked home in his own tire tracks.

Later that afternoon, I drove my neighbor four miles to an open pharmacy to get needed medication for his wife. We also stopped at an open supermarket and loaded up on groceries. Employees at these stores were snowed in at work for the time being. So, the stores simply stayed open. It took more than two hours to get there and back. The Jeep performed perfectly in the deep snow. I used low range (which switches off the traction control and ESP), but took my time allowing the tires to claw through the snow. I got through drifts as high as the top of the Jeep's hood. It was uneventful in that the tires were designed for these conditions and I took advantage of my 40 years of snow driving experience. The lockers provided maximum power transfer, even if they made turning more of challenge. The biggest issue for us was the abandoned vehicles that blocked almost every intersection. I drove across several front yards of homes to get around the obstacles. Once on the major roads, the going was better. The snow had been beaten down by Jeeps, Hummers and a few large plow trucks.

That Ford F-350 stayed where it was for another two days.... Tires and technique... I'll say it over and over again.....




Our first winter with the Jeep... Only 24"-26" of snow. No issues with the factory tires... Not as good as the hybrids, but good enough.







 Going out to play in the snow...





Of course, a Wrangler is fun in the summer too....

« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 01:14:14 PM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Zimme83

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3069
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2015, 08:45:50 AM »
With some good winter tyres its not too hard to drive on snow and ice, tyres with spikes is preferable imo.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline ghi

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2669
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2015, 03:55:41 PM »
I've just watched this in news here,  over 150 vehicles pile-up in Michigan today, I-94; one of the trucks involved was loaded with fireworks;  i got stuck many times in  lake effect snow on  this section south of lake Michigan I-94 Indiana/Western Michigan , from Gary  to Kalamazoo;

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/report-90car-pileup-on-i94-in-west-michigan/30614946
« Last Edit: January 09, 2015, 03:57:13 PM by ghi »

Offline ghi

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2669
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2015, 12:01:15 PM »
Just a couple more videos from I-94 pileup as it happened; terrifying,  :pray   
;no joke driving on snow and ice, ; I can be the best driver , drive the best car 4x4, best  tires if the drivers around don't have the same features and skills   :pray

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDb_MENTSE0#t=50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qdeke9MFGI

Offline SilverZ06

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1727
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2015, 12:04:05 PM »
Just a couple more videos from I-94 pileup as it happened; terrifying,  :pray   
;no joke driving on snow and ice, ; I can be the best driver , drive the best car 4x4, best  tires if the drivers around don't have the same features and skills   :pray

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDb_MENTSE0#t=50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qdeke9MFGI

That reminds me of a saying I believe it was by Ron White but I could be wrong, something to the effect of "Being able to stop 15 feet shorter than the car behind you doesn't really help the situation."

Offline chaser

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 793
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2015, 08:48:31 PM »
Just a couple more videos from I-94 pileup as it happened; terrifying,  :pray   
;no joke driving on snow and ice, ; I can be the best driver , drive the best car 4x4, best  tires if the drivers around don't have the same features and skills   :pray

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDb_MENTSE0#t=50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Qdeke9MFGI

All I see is a bunch of idiots.. Why in the hell would anyone be driving that fast on roads like that. 2015 may be young but the darwin award of the year goes to everyone on that highway.

Offline SilverZ06

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1727
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2015, 09:12:04 PM »
Holy Chit! I actually just watched the video Ghi posted. My stomach was clenched as you know there is nothing those people can do. When that last semi plowed in I wonder how many people died. So so sad.  :frown:

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2015, 02:29:33 PM »
Holy Chit! I actually just watched the video Ghi posted. My stomach was clenched as you know there is nothing those people can do. When that last semi plowed in I wonder how many people died. So so sad.  :frown:

One dead..... That fast moving semi was mind boggling... Looked to be doing upwards of 70 mph in 30 mph conditions... Can't fix stupid.
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Masherbrum

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22408
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2015, 08:27:46 PM »
This board never ceases to amaze me.   
-=Most Wanted=-

FSO Squad 412th FNVG
http://worldfamousfridaynighters.com/
Co-Founder of DFC

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6863
Re: Totaled a Truck.
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2015, 09:18:29 PM »
One dead..... That fast moving semi was mind boggling... Looked to be doing upwards of 70 mph in 30 mph conditions... Can't fix stupid.

Can't fixed a moving snow squall. Accident probably started with a car hitting the brakes when it entered the squall. You are damned if you slow down and you are damned if you don't slow down.