2016 Ford GT

[Wmaker]

The point is simple.   This was developed with racing being first and foremost.   Not someone who cannot even purchase one wishing a V8 was installed.

All of the buzz is indicating that Ferrari is indeed returning.    

Ah, so it was your assumption only, got it.

Just because Ford is going to race the new GT (and it'll be in the slowest class at Le mans) doesn't automatically mean that Ferrari is getting back to Le mans.

What made me wonder was the fact that you proclaimed that Gt "was to beat Ferrari" as if it was some kind of stone written fact.

Well, it isn't.

[Zoney]

(Image removed from quote.)
http://gtspeed.us/the-ford-gt-in-gulf-livery-came-out-so-fast/

...at first I didn't like the open sides and the huge gashes they made (good for the aero though, I'm sure) to the sides of the car but seeing it in the legenday livery it is staring to grow on me.

It's starting to grow on you?  Oh my goodness, that's sex on 4 wheels right there.

[Wmaker]

It's starting to grow on you?  Oh my goodness, that's sex on 4 wheels right there.

Well, I'm a big fan of the original GT40 and I guess I would have liked that the sides of the car would pay more homage to that. But I of course do understand that the modern aero requirements make that very very hard to accomplish.

As they say, about matters of taste one shouldn't argue about...or can only argue about. Which ever fits best.

Another cool artist's impression:

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/ford/2016-ford-gt-le-mans-ar167086.html

[Masherbrum]

Ah, so it was your assumption only, got it.

Just because Ford is going to race the new GT (and it'll be in the slowest class at Le mans) doesn't automatically mean that Ferrari is getting back to Le mans.

What made me wonder was the fact that you proclaimed that Gt "was to beat Ferrari" as if it was some kind of stone written fact.

Well, it isn't.

No less than the semantics typed in your assumptions.   

[Widewing]

There are already rumors circulating that the racing conversion Ford will get 30% better fuel mileage than the Corvette, and probably be a bit faster too. Le Mans has become a fuel mileage race as much as anything. Of course, if the Fords or Corvettes should dominate their class, you can bet the rules will be changed to favor the Euro teams. That's been the case in FIA racing for 50 years.

When 10 Shelby Cobra Daytona coupes and 289 roadsters were entered in the last race of the 1964 season at Monza, they had beaten Ferrari into submission and Ford was just 6 points behind in the Manufacturers championship. The Daytona coupes had already practiced at faster lap times than Enzo's cars could attain, even in qualification trim. Ferrari knew that Ford was going to beat him badly. So, he demanded that the FIA reclassify the 250 LM as a GT car or he would pull his cars from competition. The FIA did one better and cancelled the Monza race, handing the GT championship to Enzo. Ford and Shelby were livid. In 1965, the Cobras brutally crushed Ferrari. For 1966, the FIA again restructured the GT rules (those damned Americans will learn the hard way, right?)

Combine the duplicity of the FIA and Enzo's reneging on his deal to sell out to Ford, Ferrari sat in Ford's crosshair for years. After the 7 liter GT-40 MK.II and Mk.IV crushed Ferrari like a bug in '66 and '67, Enzo, cried like a girl and the FIA banned the big block engines for the 1968 season. Meanwhile, Porsche had rising steadily with their 904, 906, 907, 908, 910 and 917.

So what happened? 5 liter GT-40s won Le Mans anyway, and repeated it again in 1969 (Jackie Ickx brilliantly out-driving Hans Herrmann and his Porsche 908). Ferrari spent a great deal of money to build the 512 series cars. However, the GT-40 was largely outmoded and the Porsche 917 had been sorted by 1970. Not only was Ferrari out-classed by Porsche, his 512s were hard pressed to beat old Lola T70 Mk.III coupes running American V-8s. Hans Herrmann got his win in 1970.

What I miss most is the Can-Am series, from 1966 through 1974. Rules? No rules, really. The fastest road racing cars on earth during that time period. Formula 1 speeds paled in comparison, especially on long, high speed courses. McLarens, Lolas, Chaparral, Porsche, Shaddow, March and even Ferrari (never competitive, but game) were the big names. Anybody who was anyone in racing ran Can-Am. How fast were the Can-Am cars? In 1969, the fastest lap turned at Watkins Glen by a Can-Am car was 1:02.2 in 90 degree temperatures. Later in October, in 50 degree temperatures, the fastest F1 lap was 1:04.4. The average speed of Denny Hulme's M8B McLaren was fast enough to have lapped the entire F1 field over the 200 mile race. By 1973, the Porsche 917/30 was producing as much 1,480 hp in qualifying trim. The Chevys could manage about 1,000 hp in race trim.

Watch this video of Can-Am cars running a vintage race at Infinion Raceway. The 917/30s are fast, and driven hard. That Shaddow Mk.II (1971) was awesome quick too.... Detroit iron, shaking the earth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C02jDvfBHU

Then, take a ride with Jim Pace (winner of Sebring 12 hours and Daytona 24 hours in a Riley & Scott) in an Oscar Kovaleski's M6B at Road America. Many of these guys race to win... Pace sure does. This car was built for the 1968 season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI1up3ukikU

Pace runs a hot lap at Indy, winning the race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxVcsQ9GDaQ

Finally, race with Pace in a gorgeous 1966 Lola T70....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DN4BUBF_Xo

 

[Wmaker]

No less than the semantics typed in your assumptions.  

I didn't assume anything. You on the other hand talked about things that have not been announced as they were facts. In other words, assumed that Ferrari was coming back for sure. In other words did not know what you were talking about.

[Zoney]

Widewing, I was a HUGE fan of Can-Am racing and saw them race at Donnybrook which is now called Brainerd International Raceway in Minnesota.  The best racing this planet has ever seen.  Now we have rules in racing expressly made to make the racing "more competitive" which is the biggest bunch of baloney ever.  Instead of changing the rules because your cars suck, how about making your cars not suck?

[Masherbrum]

Widewing, I was a HUGE fan of Can-Am racing and saw them race at Donnybrook which is now called Brainerd International Raceway in Minnesota.  The best racing this planet has ever seen.  Now we have rules in racing expressly made to make the racing "more competitive" which is the biggest bunch of baloney ever.  Instead of changing the rules because your cars suck, how about making your cars not suck?

Agreed.

[Widewing]

Widewing, I was a HUGE fan of Can-Am racing and saw them race at Donnybrook which is now called Brainerd International Raceway in Minnesota.  The best racing this planet has ever seen.  Now we have rules in racing expressly made to make the racing "more competitive" which is the biggest bunch of baloney ever.  Instead of changing the rules because your cars suck, how about making your cars not suck?

Like you, I find the so called "spec series" racing boring. No innovation. Can-AM Group 7 rules resulted in the fastest racing on earth for 8 years. At every track where the Can Am cars and F1 car raced during the same season, the Can Am cars were faster, often much faster. The Can Am was the most innovative series ever. Wings were in use as early as 1965. Ground effects in 1970. Twin turbos in 1972.

I was able to attend every Can-Am and USRRC race at Bridgehampton, beginning in 1965. The last Can-Am race there was in 1969. 1970 Can-Am race was moved to Road Atlanta after a major storm washed out a portion of the track, a few weeks after the 1970 Trans-Am race. That wold prove to be the last major event Bridgehampton. Thereafter, it was relegated to SCCA and EMRA club racing. As early as 1968, the track was considered too dangerous for these insanely quick Can-Am cars, and the track owners didn't have the funds to invest in upgrading the spartan facility. Today, it's a golf course and condo community. The last USRRC race there was in 1968 (series cancelled). After 1966, it was obvious that the USRRC had become the Can-Am's minor league series. We drove up to Watkins Glen for the 1970 through 1973 Can-Am races there. Brought tents, coolers and sleeping bags all stuffed into various station wagons.

Here's a photo for Skuzzy. You've not seen this one before... Dan Gurney at the wheel of a Shelby team 289 Cobra, 1963. The original Ford GT, if you will.....


Another never seen before... Gurney driving a Shelby Team 289 Cobra in the 1964 Targa Florio, where it was the class winner (GT +3.0).

[Zoney]

We would also drive up as a family starting when I was 9 years old and continuing until I left for the Air Force in 1974 at 17 years old.  I have 2 sisters and a brother and my dad had a dirtbike for every one of us.  We could ride our bike around the infield all we wanted, pull up to the fence and watch the racing and then ride to another viewing spot, or park the bike next to the grandstands and watch from there.  It was freedom and excitement.  I had just one responsibility, stay with my brother who was 6 years younger than me.  My clearest memory was standing by the fence inside of turn 2.  We could see the cars come down the last half of the front straight and then fly into turn one with barely a lift on the gas pedal, hard brakes into another right hander, fishtailing out of the corner as the set up for the next corner, a left hander you accelerated through.

We also went to Donnybrook to watch motorcycle roadracing and that's when I decided, that's what I wanted to be, a motorcycle racer.  Many many years later, at my fathers house in San Diego, where he moved after I left home, I saw tears in his eyes as he unwrapped a package I gave him and he realized it was a 1st place trophy I won while racing a Honda CBR600RR in the Supersport class at Donnybrook, even though by then it was BIR.  During that race, I saw kids like I was, standing in the same spot I used to, cheering me on.  I only raced that track one time because I live in Arizona but it was certainly worth the trip.

[Skuzzy]

Oh, I know those Cobras well.  #146 is CSX2323.  Still being driven by a member of the Great Lakes Cobra Club.  Fully restored.

Saving the best for last.  Old #97 is a car I know all too well.  That race was at Riverside in 1963.  How do I know?  My Dad took me to that race.  I will never forget it.  That is where my love affair with the Cobra started.  It was not until one pulled up beside us at the old hot rod A&W drive in that it cemented the deal for me.  

Unfortunately, old #97 died a tragic death and is no longer in this world.

Attached is one for you Widewing.  It's from the Cobra registry.

[Widewing]

Oh, I know those Cobras well.  #146 is CSX2323.  Still being driven by a member of the Great Lakes Cobra Club.  Fully restored.

Saving the best for last.  Old #97 is a car I know all too well.  That race was at Riverside in 1963.  How do I know?  My Dad took me to that race.  I will never forget it.  That is where my love affair with the Cobra started.  It was not until one pulled up beside us at the old hot rod A&W drive in that it cemented the deal for me.  

Unfortunately, old #97 died a tragic death and is no longer in this world.

Attached is one for you Widewing.  It's from the Cobra registry.

Very nice... Looks like the same Targa Florio. Here's one from a race I went to in 1963... I was just 10 and hooked on racing and the Cobra. The 1963 Bridgehampton 500 km (round 22 of World Sports Car Championship).

Left to right, Ken Miles Miles in 98, CX2129. Dan Gurney 99, CX2137 and Bob Holbert 97, CX2127. Gurney won. Miles was 2nd. Holbert broke an axle, DNF.