How to fight with E

[Wiley]

Under circumstances and especially with flaps down, combat trim will actually hamper some maneuvers. Good example is slow Ki-84 with fully deployed flaps. You'll have a hard time pushing nose down. That's where manual trim helps a lot. Of course, manually trimming during fight can be just one more thing that kills you. Usually you'd trim plane as neutral as possible before entering the fight, with only slight corrections during fight, if absolutely necessary.

For the most part, combat trim works just fine, but there are times (and planes) when you can really benefit from manual trim.

Pretty much anything that uses a lot of flaps.  Once the flaps come out, I find a few taps nose down trim gets me set for the stall fight most of the time.

I don't exactly understand trim modeling in the game and how it affects your maneuvers.  When you're in compression, or even just in a state where controls are heavy, if you leave the stick neutral and use trim, you can pull out of a dive without touching the stick.  From what I understand, that's not what would happen in the real world.  Why is that and how does it affect your aircraft?

I've heard anecdotes from guys that quite know what they're doing saying BnZing at high speed, you can retain more E trimming through the zoom rather than moving the stick.  Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, and the few times I've tried it it seemed to make no difference vs a smooth low G pullup.

Wiley.

[Randy1]

I will share one of my E weakness.  I have a bad habit of not fully unloading when in E recovery.  If I don't pay attention, the habit reappears.

I noticed too auto trim can delay unloading albeit a short time.

[2bighorn]

I don't exactly understand trim modeling in the game and how it affects your maneuvers.  When you're in compression, or even just in a state where controls are heavy, if you leave the stick neutral and use trim, you can pull out of a dive without touching the stick.  From what I understand, that's not what would happen in the real world.  Why is that and how does it affect your aircraft?

Aces High does not model trim tabs. Control surfaces are used instead ie elevator, ruder and ailerons. In addition to that, combat trim does not account for flaps. For example, trimming elevator up will move elevators up.

I've heard anecdotes from guys that quite know what they're doing saying BnZing at high speed, you can retain more E trimming through the zoom rather than moving the stick.  Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, and the few times I've tried it it seemed to make no difference vs a smooth low G pullup.

Shouldn't really matter, but with some setups, like without stick scaling, you'd have finer control with trimming instead of moving stick. In 99% of the cases it makes no difference.

[FLS]

Pretty much anything that uses a lot of flaps.  Once the flaps come out, I find a few taps nose down trim gets me set for the stall fight most of the time.

I don't exactly understand trim modeling in the game and how it affects your maneuvers.  When you're in compression, or even just in a state where controls are heavy, if you leave the stick neutral and use trim, you can pull out of a dive without touching the stick.  From what I understand, that's not what would happen in the real world.  Why is that and how does it affect your aircraft?

I've heard anecdotes from guys that quite know what they're doing saying BnZing at high speed, you can retain more E trimming through the zoom rather than moving the stick.  Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, and the few times I've tried it it seemed to make no difference vs a smooth low G pullup.

Wiley.

Using trim to recover when the stick is "stuck" from compression is a real world solution.  

There is no difference in drag using elevator trim instead of moving the stick. Elevator trim is just setting the elevator deflection.

[2bighorn]

There is no difference in drag using elevator trim instead of moving the stick.

That would depend on your stick, don't you think. Your stick could be spiking ever so slightly, or your stick sensitivity is too high and you're hungover (shaky hands) and make your elevator flutter and increase the drag. 

[FLS]

That would depend on your stick, don't you think. Your stick could be spiking ever so slightly, or your stick sensitivity is too high and you're hungover (shaky hands) and make your elevator flutter and increase the drag. 

It seemed too obvious to mention that moving the elevator more would have different results compared to moving it less. 

[Wiley]

Using trim to recover when the stick is "stuck" from compression is a real world solution.  

Right.  But in the real world, it requires input to actually pull up as opposed to causing the aircraft to pitch all on its own, right?

Shouldn't really matter, but with some setups, like without stick scaling, you'd have finer control with trimming instead of moving stick. In 99% of the cases it makes no difference.

That sounds plausible.  The way people are, if there was an actual difference somebody would have done diagrams and youtube videos by now to show it.

Wiley.

[FLS]

Right.  But in the real world, it requires input to actually pull up as opposed to causing the aircraft to pitch all on its own, right?

Wiley.

The trim tab provides the input.

[2bighorn]

Right.  But in the real world, it requires input to actually pull up as opposed to causing the aircraft to pitch all on its own, right?

Combat trim is less accurate at very low or very high speed, plus some planes hit the max trim sooner.  So, if CT hits max negative pitch trim, and you still go faster, wing will produce more lift than CT can trim it out and plane will pitch up.

[TequilaChaser]

That sounds plausible.  The way people are, if there was an actual difference somebody would have done diagrams and youtube videos by now to show it.Wiley.

actually a few have, both Lephturn and Ren ( DamnedRen ) both old AH trainers have done films and diagrams and write ups in regards to setting & controlling Trim settings in Aces high as well as how the use of Combat Trim 9 CT ) affects the planes performance in the game....

I believe Lephturn's CT write up and other trim and commands write up is still on the Trainer's website...... Ren posted his trim and stick scaling write ups in here ....... all this stuff is pre 2005.... but it is findable via the Search function

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Under circumstances and especially with flaps down, combat trim will actually hamper some maneuvers. Good example is slow Ki-84 with fully deployed flaps. You'll have a hard time pushing nose down. That's where manual trim helps a lot. Of course, manually trimming during fight can be just one more thing that kills you. Usually you'd trim plane as neutral as possible before entering the fight, with only slight corrections during fight, if absolutely necessary.For the most part, combat trim works just fine, but there are times (and planes) when you can really benefit from manual trim.

I agree with bighorn, nice post!

Combat trim is less accurate at very low or very high speed, plus some planes hit the max trim sooner.  So, if CT hits max negative pitch trim, and you still go faster, wing will produce more lift than CT can trim it out and plane will pitch up.

and this is correct as well!

I have often said is better to fly with no CT turned on and plane trimmed for level flight no stick inputs, with speed ( IAS ) anywhere from 275 MPH to 350 MPH depending on plane type ( spit, hurri, 109, F4U, P47, P51 etc ) thus, once you engage and begin to slow where you are near deploying flaps, you will have the ability to hold a gentle pull on your joystick to hold steady and fire, without worrying the dreaded nose bounce or the nose popping High(up) when you drop another notch of flaps..... I find it also helps me regain my E (as in speed ) once I go nose low again because I am all ready trimmed for  that speed range and my aircraft is not fighting or waiting for the combat trim to adjust through the speed as it is increasing.....

YMMV


hope this helps

TC

[NikonGuy]

^^^^^ Well put Tequila 

[Arlo]

[TequilaChaser]

(Image removed from quote.)

Ya know, Arlo.... I been doing that since my Grandma ( Granny ) told me when she met  Cassius clay and his Mom in a Goodwill store somewhere around Greenbrier, WV back in here early years ( she had my Mom at 43, one and only child )................

I been doing that dance for quiet a few years myself..........I just need to be at my prime on those Good days ( meaning scheduled )

but seriously, who cares as long as we're all having fun? right?

TC

[Arlo]

Ya know, Arlo.... I been doing that since my Grandma ( Granny ) told me when she met  Cassius clay and his Mom in a Goodwill store somewhere around Greenbrier, WV back in here early years ( she had my Mom at 43, one and only child )................

I been doing that dance for quiet a few years myself..........I just need to be at my prime on those Good days ( meaning scheduled )

but seriously, who cares as long as we're all having fun? right?

TC

Exactly.