Jug Instructions

[DmonSlyr]

Update:

As someone said earlier it appears I'm doing just fine in the D 40, which is pretty cool given my initial problems with the aircraft. After tooling about in my stubby little FM2, the 47 has helped me re-learn my bnz skills, and I'm pretty sure I've ticked off a lot of guys who never saw me coming. 

It's nice to add another bird to my stable as I do tend to get bored flying the same models all the time. At any rate, I appreciate all the advice you guys have given me.

That said, are there any cool trick moves you can pull off in the jug? Y'know, stuff that's slightly Latrobish?

As I mentioned before. Work on rolling the plane all the way over before you begin to place the shot during a rolling scissors. The quicker you roll the better.  The important thing is to keep the nose up  after you do the roll.

[ink]

I dont think anyone mentioned it (might of missed it)


I mean if you absolutely have to fly the jug..

...with all the guns on the 47 you should not have them all converge at one spot..

spread it out a bit...

[glzsqd]

I fly my Jugs with 6 Guns. I don't see why Convergence would matter, its all about preference really.

[DmonSlyr]

I fly my Jugs with 6 Guns. I don't see why Convergence would matter, its all about preference really.

Why not just fly the p51 instead? Flying with 6 guns defeats the purpose. You need those 8 guns to take down bombers and planes more quickly instead of losing all of your E having to shoot longer.

[glzsqd]

Why not just fly the p51 instead? Flying with 6 guns defeats the purpose. You need those 8 guns to take down bombers and planes more quickly instead of losing all of your E having to shoot longer.

P47 is the better fighter IMO, better roll and low speed handling  takes damage better, honestly I could go on and on.  the extra 2 50cals seem redundant to me as well. You hit someone within proper convergence you will never know the difference. It's also good for saving weight while also having a nice long firing time.  I do take 8  Fifty cals if im going Buff hunting, but usually ill up german iron to kill buffs.

[DmonSlyr]

P47 is the better fighter IMO, better roll and low speed handling  takes damage better, honestly I could go on and on.  the extra 2 50cals seem redundant to me as well. You hit someone within proper convergence you will never know the difference. It's also good for saving weight while also having a nice long firing time.  I do take 8  Fifty cals if im going Buff hunting, but usually ill up german iron to kill buffs.

The p51 capitalizes on E retainment and E gathering, flap deployment, turning ability, roll rate, exceleration, top speed, and dive rates are about equal given gravity and mass. The only thing the P47 has the advantage in is the 2 extra 50 cals that could potentially finish the enemy off more quickly in snap shots a quick shot attempts, the extra ord it can carry, which isn't that much more, and maybe 3 extra minutes of gas..

You simply cannot be as effective and quick in the P47 as you can in the P51, unless the 2 extra 50 cals finish your engagement more quickly, which is the point of the 2 extra 50 cals.

I think the P51B would be a good fight against the P47s. But he D clearly out matches it.

[glzsqd]

The p51 capitalizes on E retainment and E gathering, flap deployment, turning ability, roll rate, exceleration, top speed, and dive rates are about equal given gravity and mass. The only thing the P47 has the advantage in is the 2 extra 50 cals that could potentially finish the enemy off more quickly in snap shots a quick shot attempts, the extra ord it can carry, which isn't that much more, and maybe 3 extra minutes of gas..

You simply cannot be as effective and quick in the P47 as you can in the P51, unless the 2 extra 50 cals finish your engagement more quickly, which is the point of the 2 extra 50 cals.

I think the P51B would be a good fight against the P47s. But he D clearly out matches it.

The P47M has the advantage in climb rate on WEP, it also holds a speed advantage over 15k on WEP. This means the P47M accelerates faster than the p51 while on WEP and out runs it above 15k. Their flaps deploy at the same IAS but the P47 handles the lower speeds alot better. I know for a fact the P47 rolls better than the P51.


The extra 50s really don't make a difference for me, I'd rather save the weight and still have over 3000 rounds of ammunition. I don't fly the p51 because it isn't nearly as rugged and it isn't as capable in a low speed stall fight.


I think you seriously underestimate the P47s abilities, It was in fact fighter that broke the Luftwaffes back in the ETO.

[DmonSlyr]

The P47M has the advantage in climb rate on WEP, it also holds a speed advantage over 15k on WEP. This means the P47M accelerates faster than the p51 while on WEP and out runs it above 15k. Their flaps deploy at the same IAS but the P47 handles the lower speeds alot better. I know for a fact the P47 rolls better than the P51.


The extra 50s really don't make a difference for me, I'd rather save the weight and still have over 3000 rounds of ammunition. I don't fly the p51 because it isn't nearly as rugged and it isn't as capable in a low speed stall fight.

I don't see where you think the p47 handles slow speed better, at low speeds the jug struggles to bring its nose up for a shot, and if you leave it at a nose down position after the roll you will be disadvantaged in the loop fight. It lacks excel potential, feels heavier the slower you get in the roll, and is a lot more sluggish at 3K when you are trying to get away from the fight. The P51 will easily out loop and out roll the P47 at slow speeds. There aren't any charts to prove that but flying experience. The P47 will not out climb the P51 in a good spiral climb rope. It is not as aerodynamic of a plane.  I think you need some more experience in each. Can the P47 out climb the P51 to maximum alt capacity, if not that deafeats your premise. The P51 even performs much better in defensive positions compared to the P47 which gives it another advantage. The varience you see on the those charts are minimal compared to how each plane peforms regarding maximum potential.

I mean I'm not knocking on the P47 by any means. But the plane is what it is.

Nothing lacks a pilot from being the top fighter in any plane. While I think it is easier to be successful in faster late war planes in the late war, flying the plane to it's strenghts will bring great results 97% of the time, but the difficulty of plane strengths rise with plane selection. Hince the idea of ENY.  Somtimes in the MA you just cannot escape the gang unless you are in a super fast plane.

[glzsqd]

I don't see where you think the p47 handles slow speed better, at low speeds the jug struggles to bring its nose up for a shot, and if you leave it at a nose down position after the roll you will be disadvantaged in the loop fight. It lacks excel potential, feels heavier the slower you get in the roll, and is a lot more sluggish at 3K when you are trying to get away from the fight. The P51 will easily out loop and out roll the P47 at slow speeds. There aren't any charts to prove that but flying experience. The P47 will not out climb the P51 in a good spiral climb rope. It is not as aerodynamic of a plane.  I think you need some more experience in each. Can the P47 out climb the P51 to maximum alt capacity, if not that deafeats your premise. The P51 even performs much better in defensive positions compared to the P47 which gives it another advantage. The varience you see on the those charts are minimal compared to how each plane peforms regarding maximum potential.

I mean I'm not knocking on the P47 by any means. But the plane is what it is.

I suppose I'm just going to have to agree to disagree.

I love aircraft debates as much as the next guy however, discrediting my points simply because I haven't had what you feel to be enough video game experience  is a little insulting(not that I think the intent is malicious). The charts and recorded data ignore all bias that you an me have for any given aircraft so in actuality they are more creditable than either of our experiences, which is why I chose to reference them.


Anyhow this is a JUG thread so to get back on track, The P47 is not an aircraft optimized for low-alts, All the planes that outclass you on the deck become mortal at medium alts, at high alts there's only a hand full of planes that can match the JUG in performance.

[Oldman731]

I don't see where you think the p47 handles slow speed better

I think it handles better at slow speeds.  51 has a terrible stall departure, 47 has a very stable recovery.

- oldman

[darkzking]

p47 has a very easy stall recovery while the p51 once you stall her at slow speeds she's not the quickest to get out of it

I don't see where you think the p47 handles slow speed better, at low speeds the jug struggles to bring its nose up for a shot, and if you leave it at a nose down position after the roll you will be disadvantaged in the loop fight. It lacks excel potential, feels heavier the slower you get in the roll, and is a lot more sluggish at 3K when you are trying to get away from the fight. The P51 will easily out loop and out roll the P47 at slow speeds. There aren't any charts to prove that but flying experience. The P47 will not out climb the P51 in a good spiral climb rope. It is not as aerodynamic of a plane.  I think you need some more experience in each. Can the P47 out climb the P51 to maximum alt capacity, if not that deafeats your premise. The P51 even performs much better in defensive positions compared to the P47 which gives it another advantage. The varience you see on the those charts are minimal compared to how each plane peforms regarding maximum potential.

I mean I'm not knocking on the P47 by any means. But the plane is what it is.

Nothing lacks a pilot from being the top fighter in any plane. While I think it is easier to be successful in faster late war planes in the late war, flying the plane to it's strenghts will bring great results 97% of the time, but the difficulty of plane strengths rise with plane selection. Hince the idea of ENY.  Somtimes in the MA you just cannot escape the gang unless you are in a super fast plane.

[bozon]

I dont think anyone mentioned it (might of missed it)


I mean if you absolutely have to fly the jug..

...with all the guns on the 47 you should not have them all converge at one spot..

spread it out a bit...

Worst P47 advice ever.

[bozon]

Ink, I know you are a big ki84 fan, but much of your praises of the plane are exaggerated. I fought countless ki84s in the MA and remain unimpressed. In a P47, with a few kft under me, the ki84 is completely avoidable even when it has the advantage. Above 10,000 feet the P47D is faster and even climbs about the same on WEP. Above 20,000 where P47s were supposed to fight, the KI84 is a joke. Against the P47M the ki is outclassed unless the fight is turning circle a at under 200 mph... But then a zero is even better and that does not make it a great fighter.

The best turn/stall fights are done with planes that were not made for it. Take a B25 or a B26 in fighter mode (no drones, using the fixed guns) and you'll see.

[Randy1]

Ink, I know you are a big ki84 fan, but much of your praises of the plane are exaggerated. . . .

I think apples and oranges apply here.  The Ki84 in a close turn fighter is deadly at the altitude most fights occur in AH.  The 47 in its element is equally as deadly.  Both are superior to the other fighter when out of their element.

With the M and the Ki I can greatly increase kills and K/D in the same time frame as compared to the P-38 as long as I stay in the fighters element.  Not that the P-38 is not a great fighter but with the P-38 as we know is a favorite target requiring more defensive time spent drawing away from offensive moves.

[The Fugitive]

Most of you people are blinded by the "data". What plane "A" can do at this alt or that alt really doesn't have a lot to do with what a person CAN do with a plane. One guy says a P47 sucks at low alt, another says it good due to it's spin recovery..... blah blah blah... and then there is Lepape2.

All that "data' can be used as a base line, and even then when up against one of the "masters" in a certain plane you can pretty much throw even that out the window. We as game player get the chance to push the envelope much farther than any of the test pilots ever could so our data is going to be different than real world. Add on top of that fact that as a game there are certain VERY repeatable combinations of stick and rudder that people find fantastic maneuvers.

This is what bring up these "discussions" of people agreeing to disagree. The best answer to the OP is if you really want to know how to fly the Jug, pick one and spend every minute of game time  for the next month or two flying it. Use it for bombing, fighting high alt and low. Use it to pick, and turn fight in a furball. Use it for base defense and attack. After 6 to 8 weeks you should have a pretty good idea of what it can and can't do in the game.