Jug Instructions

[DmonSlyr]

I suppose I'm just going to have to agree to disagree.

I love aircraft debates as much as the next guy however, discrediting my points simply because I haven't had what you feel to be enough video game experience  is a little insulting(not that I think the intent is malicious). The charts and recorded data ignore all bias that you an me have for any given aircraft so in actuality they are more creditable than either of our experiences, which is why I chose to reference them.


Anyhow this is a JUG thread so to get back on track, The P47 is not an aircraft optimized for low-alts, All the planes that outclass you on the deck become mortal at medium alts, at high alts there's only a hand full of planes that can match the JUG in performance.

I didn't mean to insult your experience but understanding how each plane flies to the max, regardless of chart abilities is a huge difference, especially for new players who are trying to learn. I have probably at least 5 more years of experience in each plane in dueling and the MA as well as many other planes that I can compare it with, as a matter of fact I just found last year how much the P47 needs to get rolled all the way over first if you are trying to do rolling scissors or BRD in order to keep the nose up. I have flown it a lot and just because someone only flies that plane doesnt necessarily make them the best in it. While I dont really look about the speed or climb charts, the P51 is much easier to handle and turns a lot better with and with out speed in the rolling scissors, and in the slow and fast fight. IMO the equal p47 pilot wouldn't stand a chance in a equal fight vs the P51. Which plane would you rather fight a Yak against? The only way a P47 would even have a chance is with an atl advantage and precise BnZ skills, the P51 has a much better chance at winning even the slow fight. Although, the yak turns slightly better than the P51. If you are attempting to rope a plane, you will do so much easier in a P51, where you shouldn't even do a rope in a P47.
I know for a fact the P51 has a much better chance at fighting 109s compared to the P47. 93% of fights happen below 10k so most of the time you fight at the P47s full potential.

IMO. I thought YUCCA was one of the best P47 sticks. I've never faught lepape. IMO one of the best 47 sticks out there is Messiah, even though he picks a lot, he uses the plane to its strengths and he fights with it well. 

GIzz we need to hit up the DA and practice in these planes and we can work on some things, but I'll try to show you what I mean.

[FLS]

Take a P-47 and P-51 and fly continuous max turn loops or barrel rolls in tight formation. Switch aircraft and repeat.  

[glzsqd]

Most of you people are blinded by the "data". What plane "A" can do at this alt or that alt really doesn't have a lot to do with what a person CAN do with a plane. One guy says a P47 sucks at low alt, another says it good due to it's spin recovery..... blah blah blah... and then there is Lepape2.

All that "data' can be used as a base line, and even then when up against one of the "masters" in a certain plane you can pretty much throw even that out the window. We as game player get the chance to push the envelope much farther than any of the test pilots ever could so our data is going to be different than real world. Add on top of that fact that as a game there are certain VERY repeatable combinations of stick and rudder that people find fantastic maneuvers.

This is what bring up these "discussions" of people agreeing to disagree. The best answer to the OP is if you really want to know how to fly the Jug, pick one and spend every minute of game time  for the next month or two flying it. Use it for bombing, fighting high alt and low. Use it to pick, and turn fight in a furball. Use it for base defense and attack. After 6 to 8 weeks you should have a pretty good idea of what it can and can't do in the game.

  No offense, but proof read man. Think of the reader.

The games FM is all biased on that "Data" which was collected by test pilots pushing the envelope of the planes.

[Randy1]

. . . The best answer to the OP is if you really want to know how to fly the Jug, pick one and spend every minute of game time  for the next month or two flying it. Use it for bombing, fighting high alt and low. Use it to pick, and turn fight in a furball. Use it for base defense and attack. After 6 to 8 weeks you should have a pretty good idea of what it can and can't do in the game.

Well posted.  Best advice for sure.

[FLS]

The games FM is all biased on that "Data" which was collected by test pilots pushing the envelope of the planes.

I'm sure you meant to write "based" not "biased".  The aerodynamic flight model is as accurate as Hitech can make it. Individual aircraft of the same model will often have performance differences. The FM is based on the published data and likely represents the high end of average actual performance before engine wear and other damage degrade performance.

Fugi wants to disregard data in a discussion of aircraft performance. If you fly a Jug for a month what do you learn? You learn the data.

[DmonSlyr]

I didn't have time to proof read my bad.

But the charts are like stock charts. They only tell you its base performance measure but don't tell you the actual dynamic of the company.

[FLS]

I didn't have time to proof read my bad.

But the charts are like stock charts. They only tell you its base performance measure but don't tell you the actual dynamic of the company.

I believe our performance data is more consistent. I agree that limited performance data doesn't tell you the whole story.

[-ammo-]

In my experience, if the fight get's under 200 IAS, all the P-47 models will turn inside a P-51 in about 1.5 to 2 turns.  Again, in my experience, the P-47s as modeled in AH are much better (pilot being equal or close) in a slow turn fight.  I base that on thousands of hours in the AH arenas flying a jug, and welcome someone willing to test my statements.

[glzsqd]

I'm sure you meant to write "based" not "biased". 

Oops *blushes*

[The Fugitive]

I'm sure you meant to write "based" not "biased".  The aerodynamic flight model is as accurate as Hitech can make it. Individual aircraft of the same model will often have performance differences. The FM is based on the published data and likely represents the high end of average actual performance before engine wear and other damage degrade performance.

Fugi wants to disregard data in a discussion of aircraft performance. If you fly a Jug for a month what do you learn? You learn the data.

No, you learn MORE than the data. As this is a game a real life pilot could only push their aircraft say to 95% due to that thing.... ummmm.... death. We only the other hand can push them to 110% and more. We can do maneuvers that would have had real pilots eyeballs rolling around the floor of their planes because we don't have those silly limitations like.....ummmmm.... death!

Flying in this game using the "data" as your bench mark is like flying with the stall limiter on. Your only using part of the potential you have available. Thats why those "masters" of some planes like yukka, and Lepape2 look like they are cheating because they understand and use the mechanics of the game over flight data. The only way to learn these things is to DO these things and the data says you can't.

[glzsqd]

I didn't mean to insult your experience but understanding how each plane flies to the max, regardless of chart abilities is a huge difference, especially for new players who are trying to learn. I have probably at least 5 more years of experience in each plane in dueling and the MA as well as many other planes that I can compare it with, as a matter of fact I just found last year how much the P47 needs to get rolled all the way over first if you are trying to do rolling scissors or BRD in order to keep the nose up. I have flown it a lot and just because someone only flies that plane doesnt necessarily make them the best in it. While I dont really look about the speed or climb charts, the P51 is much easier to handle and turns a lot better with and with out speed in the rolling scissors, and in the slow and fast fight. IMO the equal p47 pilot wouldn't stand a chance in a equal fight vs the P51. Which plane would you rather fight a Yak against? The only way a P47 would even have a chance is with an atl advantage and precise BnZ skills, the P51 has a much better chance at winning even the slow fight. Although, the yak turns slightly better than the P51. If you are attempting to rope a plane, you will do so much easier in a P51, where you shouldn't even do a rope in a P47.
I know for a fact the P51 has a much better chance at fighting 109s compared to the P47. 93% of fights happen below 10k so most of the time you fight at the P47s full potential.

IMO. I thought YUCCA was one of the best P47 sticks. I've never faught lepape. IMO one of the best 47 sticks out there is Messiah, even though he picks a lot, he uses the plane to its strengths and he fights with it well. 

GIzz we need to hit up the DA and practice in these planes and we can work on some things, but I'll try to show you what I mean.

I would love a friendly excursion to the DA! Lets get this set up, JUG BRAWL than PONY VS JUG FFA DEATH MATCH!

[FLS]

No, you learn MORE than the data. As this is a game a real life pilot could only push their aircraft say to 95% due to that thing.... ummmm.... death. We only the other hand can push them to 110% and more. We can do maneuvers that would have had real pilots eyeballs rolling around the floor of their planes because we don't have those silly limitations like.....ummmmm.... death!

Flying in this game using the "data" as your bench mark is like flying with the stall limiter on. Your only using part of the potential you have available. Thats why those "masters" of some planes like yukka, and Lepape2 look like they are cheating because they understand and use the mechanics of the game over flight data. The only way to learn these things is to DO these things and the data says you can't.

When you say 110% you leave the realm of reality. Data is information. You learn the information and ignore the BS and you'll do fine.

In my experience people who talk 110% rarely manage more than 85% and never hit 100%.  I know it's just an expression that means you need to try harder because you aren't doing your best but I hear it used as if it's literally true.

[FLS]

Oops *blushes*

I just wanted to correct the typo before Hitech saw it. 
   
Then I quoted the wrong post.   

[DmonSlyr]

I would love a friendly excursion to the DA! Lets get this set up, JUG BRAWL than PONY VS JUG FFA DEATH MATCH!

Yeah I'm down for some fun DA practice duels. Non of that super duper serial stuff though. I'll give u a hollar next time  I'm on!

[-ammo-]

I would love a friendly excursion to the DA! Lets get this set up, JUG BRAWL than PONY VS JUG FFA DEATH MATCH!

Ohh this has promise.  ====