HQ downed by GV's...

[BigR]

The double HQ attack was fine. The main issue with HQ destruction is when it is done by a single player and is possible to do in a way which cannot be stopped unless a constant CAP is kept over HQ.

Players are now pissed off about HQ being down so often and don't take kindly any kind of HQ attack. The double HQ attack was a rare event done by a coordinated and rather sizable group of players, and does not represent the general HQ problem. I say that as one of the most opposed to the current HQ mechanism.

Totally agree with you here.... This particular attack was a great example of what kind of effort it should actually take to destroy an HQ. I think people got riled up on the forum because of the trollish way some people came on here and bragged about it, knowing HQ issues were a sore subject for a lot of people right now. I think most people just want the HQ to be a little tougher to bring down. We are not asking for a total rewrite on how the system works.

[715]

Had the two victim countries been more observant, they would have figured it out in the 15 minutes it took me and there would have been plenty of opposition.

I shouldn't join this discussion because it appears to be pointless, but I really really just don't understand your position.

You say the victim should have been more "observant" yet you admit you carried out the attack such that there was nothing whatsoever to observe.  Do you really expect the "victims" to assign several Storchs to fly all the way to the HQ and slowly do a search pattern for GVs?  All day long?  You admit you stayed out of HQ flash range.  That means there is no indication whatsoever that the HQ is under attack.  Unlike the strats there is no % readout.  It is just listed as up or down.  And when it's suddenly down... well there is not much that can be done then is there?

So, please, explain how if the tables were turned you would have been "more observant" and prevented the HQ from being destroyed.  Explain exactly what you would have done and why, with no indication the HQ was under attack, you would have decided to do that.

An easy solution to the problem: increase the HQ GV flash range to beyond the range of shells or at least have HQ telephone someone (ie give a HOST message) the moment the first shell hits.

[Wiley]

"...no different than playing in a custom arena by themselves against no opposition." is the same as saying "oh no, they were able to go 5hrs and not have some ultra-gamey bomb slinging A-20 dweeb show up and kill every one of them within 2 minutes of FINDING THEM."

What they accomplished was pretty doggone cool.

   They were able to go 5 hours in a location where nobody would have a reasonable chance to see them, then silently kill a target that in an "ultra gamey" manner never alerts anyone as it's under attack by artillery.

They were in practical terms, invisible.  All it took was a large commitment of time and boredom.  It's about as impressive as playing hide and go seek with someone who doesn't know the game is on, then declaring victory after 5 hours.

Wiley.

[glzsqd]

  They were able to go 5 hours in a location where nobody would have a reasonable chance to see them, then silently kill a target that in an "ultra gamey" manner never alerts anyone as it's under attack by artillery.

They were in practical terms, invisible.  All it took was a large commitment of time and boredom.  It's about as impressive as playing hide and go seek with someone who doesn't know the game is on, then declaring victory after 5 hours.

Wiley.

Fly around HQ for about 2 minutes and you'll see their Volley.

[Wiley]

Fly around HQ for about 2 minutes and you'll see their Volley.

Of course.  Everybody should take a flyover of the HQ every half hour or so on the off chance someone might have driven for 5 hours to get there.  Same with all the fields.     Anyone who doesn't is just an incompetent defender.

Wiley.

[glzsqd]

When HQ goes down and hasn't flashed once, I'd say its pretty reasonable to do a fly over

[Wiley]

When HQ goes down and hasn't flashed once, I'd say its pretty reasonable to do a fly over

At which point the guys in the GVs will no doubt stop firing until the darbar leaves.

I've been playing hide and go seek with Angelina Jolie since I was 18 years old.  Still winning!

Wiley.

[glzsqd]

lol, fly NOE, not only can they not see you but you can also zero in on them much better. I've been on their missions before, we don't stay "Invisible" for long. It just takes someone actually upping and looking rather than logging into the BBS to talk about how gamey it is.
It's certainly worth while to the guy who finds us, 4-5 M3s aren't as evasive and dangerous as you make them out to be.

[Scca]

Personally I think this effort was cool.   <S>  One lanc being able to accomplish this task, no, a large group doing it in a GV.. heck ya, that's neat...

[Zoney]

Of course.  Everybody should take a flyover of the HQ every half hour or so on the off chance someone might have driven for 5 hours to get there.  Same with all the fields.     Anyone who doesn't is just an incompetent defender.

Wiley.

I would be willing to do this sometimes, but I cannot see a dang thing from 34K.

[icepac]

I shouldn't join this discussion because it appears to be pointless, but I really really just don't understand your position.

So, please, explain how if the tables were turned you would have been "more observant" and prevented the HQ from being destroyed.  Explain exactly what you would have done and why, with no indication the HQ was under attack, you would have decided to do that.

The tables WERE turned because I was a member of one of the countries (knight) who's HQ was dropped.

I figured out what was up even before the HQs were dropped, flew a C47 to my HQ, found the culprits, communicated with them on channel 200, and asked to join the mission.

I then flew a C47 10 sectors deep into bish territory NOE to drop supplies for the "other attack" on bish hq (my enemy as a knight) and then dropped field supplies on my own HQ to get it back up faster while observing how long it would take for knight to figure it out......very disappointing in the 5 hour time.

During the entire operation, both HQ were also dropped by some bomb and bailers totally unassociated with the operation.

The Dar rings are linked on the way in to the HQs at least 2 sectors away and neither bish n or knights even took notice of the flashing and did nothing to defend the obvious attacks.

Like I said, "not observant enough" and the few guys who flew in to investigate the HQ areas flew in high and generated a DAR bar which caused the attackers to stop shooting HQ.

I flew in NOE when I investigated HQ and found them easily because they didn't stop shooting until I was right on top of them.

I always investigate strats by flying in NOE unless I've been following a dar for the last hour as it slowly oozes toward our strats from a rear enemy field.

Stealth works both for defense and offense yet very few in this sim ever employ it.

This is obvious when I watch tanks spawn right in front of other tanks just to get killed over and over or the befuddlement that ensues among defenders when an attacker doesn't simply fly or drive in a perfectly straight line in from spawn.

This is war 101 type stuff and I'm blown away at how many here are not clued in on basic strategy, tactics, and stealth.

[Vinkman]

these HQ raids annoy everyone because the the rules governing what HQ controls in game.

1) Loss of Dar bars
2) Loss of enemy dots in working local radar circle
3) Loss of freindly fighter dots

The average guy who logs on for some combat action for an hour or so doesn't care about the war status, or trying to win it. So when WAR strategies have a major impact on short term fighting fun, people get upset. That's why ENY and HQ raid bother everyone so much.
 
Major impact:
1) Can't fly the plane or VG I want because of ENY
2) I can't find anybody to fight or fly with because all the plane location apparatus has been dissabled.

Minor impact:
1) down time for damaged fields and guns is lengthened because of  strat raids.
2) Dar bars are down but enemy dots in local radar towers, and friendly dots are up.


I would revise The strategic targets (HQ) and rules (ENY) so that they don't ruin the short tern, non-war fighting player, yet still support winning the war.

I suggest:

1) HQ only controls DAR BAR  not local radar. not friendly palyer locations.
2) get rid of ENY. It's theroretical benefit can't be measured, and hence can't be apreciated by anyone, but it's drawbacks are real and impact every player affected in a way they complain about and remember. It's only a customer dissatisfier.

 
 


 

[wpeters]

these HQ raids annoy everyone because the the rules governing what HQ controls in game.

1) Loss of Dar bars
2) Loss of enemy dots in working local radar circle
3) Loss of freindly fighter dots

The average guy who logs on for some combat action for an hour or so doesn't care about the war status, or trying to win it. So when WAR strategies have a major impact on short term fighting fun, people get upset. That's why ENY and HQ raid bother everyone so much.
 
Major impact:
1) Can't fly the plane or VG I want because of ENY
2) I can't find anybody to fight or fly with because all the plane location apparatus has been dissabled.

Minor impact:
1) down time for damaged fields and guns is lengthened because of  strat raids.
2) Dar bars are down but enemy dots in local radar towers, and friendly dots are up.


I would revise The strategic targets (HQ) and rules (ENY) so that they don't ruin the short tern, non-war fighting player, yet still support winning the war.

I suggest:

1) HQ only controls DAR BAR  not local radar. not friendly palyer locations.
2) get rid of ENY. It's theroretical benefit can't be measured, and hence can't be apreciated by anyone, but it's drawbacks are real and impact every player affected in a way they complain about and remember. It's only a customer dissatisfier.

 

-1

Most of you shot pilots feel that HTC owes you all this.   I have very rarely not found a fight in with HQ down. 

Calling a gv mission lame is about like calling a 1v1 lame.   

Doing it offline.  Who would sweety on the board about it.  Come on guys you are making it more rewarding  for them. 

If HQ goes down and HQ isn't flashing. Grab a typhoon  and go looking.. They are 2 hard to  find.

[Tumor]

The average guy who logs on for some combat action for an hour or so doesn't care about the war status, or trying to win it.

Ahh, yes.  I would add:  >>>>But, they will use every opportunity to engage those who do.<<<   THIS is what a certain number of folks refuse to get through their heads.  When you log into the LWMA, you ARE engaged in the "win it" war, like it or not.  Maybe you start a private dogfite somewhere over AXX.  Is there a bad guy?  You're engaged in it. You can try to detract from it, you can spy for other countries, you can whine on 200 about it... no matter what, you are engaged in it.  HTC set it up that way. You can do anything you want BUT not be engaged in the LWMA, unless you log out.

I've heard calls for people to create their own arena... been gone a long time.  Didn't know you could do that.  But, maybe the average guy who doesn't care to engage in the win it war could create a Dogfite arena.  1 base each country and a field of green.  Lets make it a contest.... count the numbers over a week, or a month.  Highest numbers win.  Any bets?

[Zoney]

create a Dogfite arena.

fantastic Idea, let's call it the DA for short !