Searching for where the Hogs fit into the world

[CeeEff]

I have been searching for a general strategy for flying the 1A Hog.
I thought I would start by telling you what I think I know in hopes that you guys would tell me when I am full of it.
I see the Hogs main strengths as low altitude speed and dive acceleration.
The big barn door of a rudder and the oversize flaps are best used only for emergencies as they bleed tons of energy and it is hard to regain.
The plane does not seem to be particularly good at boom and zoom because performance falls off at a low altitude, 8k feet. That leaves it too susceptible at the top of the zoom to the Ponies and Doras that are working the 16-20K altitudes looking for prey.
All of the turn and burn crowd's aircraft beat it handily at the angles game.

Seems to me the only choice left is to fly smart, fast as possible when level and pulling the nose up to bleed off that speed before making any turns in the hopes of bleeding the energy of the opponent.

If that is true, do I try to keep all my turns at or near sustained?
I have been trying to keep turns somewhere between sustained and maybe halfway to corner speed (160-210MPH) unless I have a significant altitude advantage to build up speed again.
Is that too slow?
Should I give up and drive a truck?
Is this too long of a post?
I HAVE to fly the Hog. I love blue airplanes.     

[FLS]

The F4U-1D is the best non-perked good at everything aircraft in Aces High. 
The F4U-1A is the slightly faster fighter version, i.e. less ords.

If you have trouble in any F4U you may benefit from some training.

[Muzzy]

I'm no expert on the Hog, but....

The Corsair holds on to energy better than almost any other plane in the game. Once you get it going fast it will stay fast. The problem for me is that the energy in question is in the form of speed rather than altitude. Altitude you can easily measure by looking out the window. Speed is harder to keep track of, and sometimes you can be in a fight and not realize you have lost all your speed in maneuvering. You need to get a feel for when the hog is getting slow, and more importantly, you need to get out of the furball before that happens. Jumping into a furball is like holding your breath: you only have a finite amount of time underwater and you need to know when to come up for air. With the Hog, that's when you start getting slow.

The Hog has a better instant turn than a lot of rides. When BnZ'ing, that means you can afford to make a sharp turn to get the shot on a con, but if you miss, you will need to reset. Tracking a con for too long is one of the instances where the hog gets into trouble. It's very easy to get bounced while fixed on a target and the hog's large profile means that it can be shredded by a low angle deflection shot.

With flaps the Hog will turn with almost anything, even a Spit. There are hog drivers that try to fly turn and burn and they are usually the ones that fall under the guns of my FM2. The hog is such a big plane that it makes for an easy target if it gets down to the usual turn and burn speeds. That said, the hog's turning qualities are useful in last stand situations.

The window views of the hog are difficult to get used to. You need to reset all your views so you can see clearly, and even then it's possible for planes to hide in your blind spots. That big nose up front can sometimes hide a bird right underneath you.

Against faster birds, the hog has the advantage of superior high speed turning. It will out-turn just about any bird that can out run it, which means you can avoid the alt-monkeys provided you keep a weather eye on them and maneuver accordingly once you see them coming.

The reason why the corsair can be such a deadly aircraft is that it's faster than anything it can't out-turn, and it can out-turn anything that's faster. However you really need a good feel for the aircraft to be successful. Keep it fast and know when to get the heck out of Dodge.

There are way better hog drivers than myself out there so take anything here with an equal grain of salt.

[Randy1]

Me and Oldcote got into it last night.  He was in an f4u and I a 38.  I had the alt advantage and made a good attack then pulled the old 38 up out of the range of the f4u or so I thought.  Those f4u do indeed hold on to their E.

The F4U1a is one of the most dangerous planes in the game.  I am not a big fan of F4U's but I do greatly respect them in an AH fight.

[FLS]

The Corsair holds on to energy better than almost any other plane in the game.

I have to take exception to this. Energy is altitude and/or speed. In this case the claim would be the F4u holds it speed better. You could say that about the P-51 but the Corsairs have a "normal" drag coefficient. It's likely that the low speed performance from the outstanding flaps create the impression of better energy retention.

[DmonSlyr]

I love the HOGs and it is one of my favorite planes so listen up.

1. Fly the Dhog off the CV to Jabo attack bases and fight defenders. The Dhog is the best off the CV other than the U4 and Chog. I mainly mean fly this type if you don't want to use perks.

The F4u4 is the best plane in the game, it is p51D but can turn amazingly better, and it can out turn and outrun 90% of the planes. Just don't get caught going too slow at low atls getting slow in the furball.

The Chog flies similar to the Dhog but has cannons. Very helpful.

2. Fly the Ahog from a land base. It holds more gas and is faster. IMO the Dhog works best off the CV because it is a lil lighter, has better ord, and can turn maybe just a bit better, It performs better against slower planes defending their base. With the Ahog you need a little more time to climb out and generally you will be fighting faster planes like P51s and 190s over land, so the AHog can use more gas and more speed to catch these types of planes.

3. Do not fly the 1hog until you have a great understanding of the rest of the hogs. The 1 Hog is a bit trickier and flat stalling is more likely to occur.

4. Learn flap, throttle, rudder, and SA management. The F4U can out turn most planes, although it is one of those planes that you have to know what you are doing. I'd recommend tons of DA 1v1 practice. It can literally hover turn like helicopter at certain points if you know what you are doing. It is one of the best stall fighters in the game. Huge flaps and rudder make for easy slow downs and quick roll overs. It fits in the Ki84, n1K, category.

5. The E game.
This plane's worst performance measure is its exceleration. You never want to be low n slow around a bunch of enemies. You will be dead meat. Only turn fight if you are sure there are no other con's around. This plane needs time to gain at least 10k alt if not 15k. Once you get some speed and alt you are in a nice position for the F4U. Pick away, BnZ and get out of the fight quickly to regain your alt. Like many American planes, they suffer low n slow situations. So do not get too tangled up tryin to down an enemy without making sure there is no one around. You do not want to lose your E/alt cap around a bunch of enemies. Use the Dive to your advantage. Luckily the plane can out turn all BnZ planes, so just work on your defense techniques because once you are slow it will be easy for planes to dive and catch you.

6. It is not an easy plane to fly or learn. Practice your ACM in 1v1 in the DA. Practice your E managemt in the MA by getting very high making BnZ attacks and not getting caught up trying to turn fight. It holds E well but doesn't retain it well so just be easy when you are diving on someone and extending away so other planes don't jump you.

Good luck

[hgtonyvi]

IF you need help and training. I fly f4u's. In game ID: Rud3boi

[glzsqd]

Although I'm a big Hog head I really don't have much to say that hasn't been covered already.

F4U will win rolling scissor fights for you with out you even realizing it so that's always goo .

The Guns seem kind of corky at first because of how low they are underneath you. Watch the torque on pull to the right side, It likes to rip you down when you don't expect it.

It's flaps are very good and its very capable in low speed fights, but generally you don't want to get caught slow because it is a big airplane. If you do like getting turny and burny make sure you have some alt to work with, lots of spits yaks and 109s will simply power climb once theyve lost the advatage.



A neat trick I like to do is climb to about 15k and just before I'm in Icon range of the Furballers I dive to about 7(alts are relative to the furballs height) I try to keep just about underneath the red guys, than once you see them starting to take your 6 Oclock rocket into the vertical and watch all the "uber climbers" K4s and Spit16s stall out as you come back down on them. Throwing in a low G flat turn will sucker them in.

Don't be suprised if you get "E HAX" Pm's. It's perfectly normal

[Oldman731]

It is not an easy plane to fly or learn.

Agreed.  I think it's as difficult to fly well as the P-38.

And I agree with everything Violator said.

- oldman

[Big Rat]

The keys to the hog is to minimize the exposure of its weaknesses.  It's two main weaknesses being acceleration and climb.  Thus the key is to gain the high ground early in the fight and fight downhill while your opponent fights uphill.  In a nutshell keep your merges in the verticle while you have speed to work with, as this option goes out the window early.   Your chief threats are plains that can rebuild E quickly and have high power to weight ratios, later 109's, spits, La's, yak 3's, Ki-84, etc.  With these you definitely have to hold the high ground early, and keep them pinned below you.  Once they get level or above they can dictate the fight.  At which point your best bet is to hope and sucker them into a rolling scissors which the hog is very good at and can beat most planes. 

The hog is a very busy if not the busiest plane in the game to fly correctly.  Since it's acceleration and climb are both not great, maintaining what E you have becomes crucial.  Where most new hog pilots faulter with is flap management.  Use your flaps too much and you waste too much energy through drag, don't use them enough and you get into stall and poor turn performance.  The trick is to balance the two.  This takes quite a bit of stick time, as the more experienced you become the less flaps you can normally get away with and the better your E retention becomes.  Combine the flap management work along with the throttle management (especially at low speed), and you get a very busy aircraft.

Of course the best way to go about all this is to get with a trainer that knows this aircraft well, this will cut lots of time out of learning the aircraft versus doing it on you own.

 
BigRat

[TequilaChaser]

The keys to the hog is to minimize the exposure of its weaknesses.  It's two main weaknesses being acceleration and climb. 

Of course the best way to go about all this is to get with a trainer that knows this aircraft well, this will cut lots of time out of learning the aircraft versus doing it on you own.

 
BigRat

Heya Big Rat and FLS,

CeeEff had asked for help with F4U Training about a year and 4 or so months ago, in the help & training forum.....

the downside of it is he is in Australia and most all the Trainers are in the US......  I tried to set up 1 or 2 sessions with him, then his work schedule got in the way back then along with some of my medical stuff interfering as well, with both of us trying to keep our F4U practice/training sessions going.....

It seems that CeeEff might be able to get back to working with some of AH's F4U experts ( <--kidding hehe )...... but seriously

CeeEff, I recommend you post your normal flying times and days/evenings ............ if possible post your local time and then post what the equivalent US EST, US CST , US PST times are to your time zone........ this will help others know if they can work out a time to meet with you, to help work with you in the F4U series aircraft....

If I can find time and a way to meet up with you again, I will let you know via PM ( make sure you do not have that "I Am Away" Personal Message Auto Responder turned on, please turn it off if it is turned on )


your time is like:

Feb 28th 3:12 PM

my time is:

Feb 27th 11:12 PM EST


^
^
^  just for a reference to show others the time difference ( I may be off by an hour / or not )



hope this helps, good to see ya still in the game, CeeEff 

TC ( Johnny )

[FLS]

I have been trying to keep turns somewhere between sustained and maybe halfway to corner speed (160-210MPH) unless I have a significant altitude advantage to build up speed again.
Is that too slow?

I was too tired to get to your specific questions last night.  There's a lot of good advice posted already so I'll just comment on best sustained and corner speed. When we talk about these speed it's because they're important to know for specific circumstances. They define your tactical maneuvering speeds but they are just a part of what you consider in a fight. You should have an awareness of your speeds when you fly but your speed is a tool not a goal. You don't need to consider corner speed unless you are above corner speed and need a fast tight radius turn. Best sustained turn speed is important if you get stuck in a flat turn on the deck against a similar performing aircraft. What is also useful is your minimum speed for vertical maneuvering which is a little faster than best sustained turn rate speed. Since your minimum speed to sustain 3g generally allows a vertical maneuver with flaps you can use your minimum 3g speed as a quick way to define the lower limit of your tactical maneuvering speed band, just as you use  tunnel vision with stall horn to indicate corner speed. I'm not saying never go slow. If getting slower allows you to kill the bandit then get slower if the situation allows it.

BTW the best way to deal with dissimilar aircraft or a crowded sky is with a wingman.  If you schedule training for both of you then you'll have someone to practice with that is on the same page you are. You'll be able to drill together and practice fighting each other as well as fighting together in the arena.

[CeeEff]

Hey Guys,
Thanks for all of the replies.
There is some good stuff here, things that I know I need to use and improve on.
Regarding training, yes, I am very sure I would benefit from some training. When I get to my flying time schedule you may see why it has always been a problem.

TC, How you doing Buddy. It has been a while and I have not seen you in game.
I hope all is good and I have just been flying different times than you.
The personal message auto responder has always shown to be "OFF" so there are no guarantees there.
Flying schedule:
My time (AEST)                         US time (EST)
Saturday 4:00PM to 11:00PM         Midnight  to 7:00AM Friday
Sunday 9:00AM to 7:00PM             5:00PM Saturday to 3:00 AM Sunday

two weeks
9:00 AM to Noon                          6:00 PM to 9:00PM yesterday

two weeks
2:30 PM to 7:00 PM                      11:30 PM 5:00AM yesterday  MORFIEND TIME?     (I could sure use some rolling scissors instruction)

It is MY schedule and even I don't understand it.

My recent training has involved finding a lone KI-61 defending a Knights airfield and attacking it. 9 times out of 10 that lone KI will be piloted by Tongs.
<S> Tongs
Get shot down, watch the film. A few seconds before I get killed the film will show an error on my part. Usually reviewing the entire engagement will show one or more errors leading up to the big one. Never a problem of missing the mistakes, LOL. They are ALWAYS punctuated in 20mm.

Thanks
Hope to see you all in game
CeeEff   (Fodder)  I will change that name when I change my flying style...maybe

[Mar]

If I'm reading that right you should be on now! Pop into the TA if you can and I will do my best to help you with some of your issues.

**Saw you about 15 mins before this edit but you didn't respond, maybe next time.

[CeeEff]

If I'm reading that right you should be on now! Pop into the TA if you can and I will do my best to help you with some of your issues.

**Saw you about 15 mins before this edit but you didn't respond, maybe next time.

Sorry I missed you. I was trying to work out some vox issues and obviously was not watching the text buffer.
Thanks for trying and hopefully I will be paying attention in the future.