Flat Turn Fight

[hgtonyvi]

You are easy Junky 

[FLS]

Hogs are easy mode, I only fly them when I'm perk farming in a -1

Pilot quality aside, the difficulty of any aircraft is determined by it's characteristics vs the opposing aircraft.

It takes some time getting use to the weird gravitational lift but once you get use to it its awesome.

Gravitational lift requires you to be inverted. You may be thinking of losing yaw stability and rotating from torque.

[hgtonyvi]

Maybe you are right FLS.

[BaldEagl]

This is not correct. You imply that there is no low speed limit to best sustained turn rate. When you get too slow to pull 2.5 - 3g, depending on which aircraft you're flying, turn rate will decrease.

Lead pursuit does not decrease turn radius or increase turn rate. Turn radius and rate are a function of speed and load factor regardless of pursuit curve.

And this is why I no longer contribute to this forum.

If I can turn inside you I'm going to kill you.  If I can't do that I'm going to try to catch you from behind.  Funny how doing it wrong has worked so well for 19 years.

[FLS]

And this is why I no longer contribute to this forum.

If I can turn inside you I'm going to kill you.  If I can't do that I'm going to try to catch you from behind.  Funny how doing it wrong has worked so well for 19 years.

I understand that you shared your perceptions but it wasn't an accurate description of turning. If you pull harder for lead pursuit you are pulling more g, if you pull less for lag pursuit you are pulling less g. The difference in turn rate and radius is due to the combination of speed and g not the chosen pursuit curve.

You have the opportunity to learn something but it's up to you what you do with it.

What happens to turn rate and radius when you're slower than 150mph?



You can see that if you ride the stall, once you get under 150mph your radius increases and turn rate decreases.

[Mar]

Interesting how my post has been completely ignored.

I believe Bald may be talking about the same thing I was, determining whether or not you should dump the rest of your flaps for a temporary increase in rate vrs keeping best sustained configuration.

[morfiend]

Interesting how my post has been completely ignored.

I believe Bald may be talking about the same thing I was, determining whether or not you should dump the rest of your flaps for a temporary increase in rate vrs keeping best sustained configuration.

  Mar,

  If you drop flaps,all the way,you will decrease RADIUS not rate,you best turn RATE is at corner speed,not at sustained speed.


   

[JunkyII]

You are easy Junky 

I do like fat chicks

[FLS]

Interesting how my post has been completely ignored.

Topic was low E flat turn fight. Your suggestion was to give the opponent a turn advantage by raising flaps and reducing AOA. Other people advised how to use an E advantage the OP didn't have. BaldEagl posted his misunderstanding of turning.

I'm always happy to answer questions if there's anything you don't understand.

[Mar]

  Mar,

  If you drop flaps,all the way,you will decrease RADIUS not rate,you best turn RATE is at corner speed,not at sustained speed.


   

If for example, in the f4u1a, you're at 2 notches doing best sustained, dumping the rest of your flaps will temporarily increase your rate until your speed runs out. This can be useful if you are close enough to get a shot after doing so, but will leave you in a bad position if you don't get the kill.

Topic was low E flat turn fight. Your suggestion was to give the opponent a turn advantage by raising flaps and reducing AOA. Other people advised how to use an E advantage the OP didn't have. BaldEagl posted his misunderstanding of turning.

I'm always happy to answer questions if there's anything you don't understand.

The part in bold was at the very end of my post, and it was for ESCAPING the circle.

He did not state his E state. As I said in my example, if you start with maximum sustained speed with full flaps out in the f4u, you should raise flaps one at a time (or even all at once depending) up to 2 notches down. Your speed will increase as you do this, up to the maximum sustained turn rate configuration once you reach 2 notches. However, this is only possible if o the ther guy is not too close to getting a shot already. If he is far enough behind in the turn, raise flaps all at once up to 2 notches down, your rate will temporarily suffer until you get up to speed, but once you do all you have to do is wait. Unless of course the other guy starts doing something else, then you should react accordingly.

[morfiend]

 Mar,


 Did you look at FLS's chart?   You will decrease the turn radius,not increase the rate if you drop flaps.

  Now that might get your nose around but you turn rate isnt increased,the best turn rate is at corner speed and you have a smaller turn radius at sustained speed.


  YMMV.



   

[FLS]

If the OP is stuck in a flat turn then you know his E state.

If you have full flaps at max AOA and raise them one notch you will have to ease your pull to avoid stalling and your turn radius increases while your rate decreases. After you accelerate you can increase AOA again.

You mentioned losing a flat turn fight, now the bandit is far enough behind that you can wait to accelerate.

If you are stuck in a flat turn you cannot escape by easing your pull and raising flaps one notch at a time. You're just giving the bandit angles for a shot.

What is max sustained speed with full flaps? That would be minimum sustained speed unless you mean best sustained turn g and speed clean then drop flaps for instantaneous turn rate.

[Mar]

I'm fed up with arguing about everything that I've seen and done first hand.

If you are stuck in a flat turn you cannot escape by easing your pull and raising flaps one notch at a time. You're just giving the bandit angles for a shot.

I have escaped circle jerks with the only shot the bandit getting being at 800 yards and increasing. Perhaps you would like me to show you how to do it?

What is max sustained speed with full flaps? That would be minimum sustained speed unless you mean best sustained turn g and speed clean then drop flaps for instantaneous turn rate.

I didn't think I would have to spell out the fact that I was talking about a turn with full flaps out on the edge of the stall horn, which is most efficient (edge of stall horn) for the F4us, unlike for example the 109s which benefit from pulling into the buffet.

If you have full flaps at max AOA and raise them one notch you will have to ease your pull to avoid stalling and your turn radius increases while your rate decreases. After you accelerate you can increase AOA again.

Again, edge of stall horn, wherever that may be. I said rate suffers until you're up to speed.

Did you look at FLS's chart?   You will decrease the turn radius,not increase the rate if you drop flaps.

  Now that might get your nose around but you turn rate isnt increased,the best turn rate is at corner speed and you have a smaller turn radius at sustained speed.

Again, spending excess speed on flaps will temporarily increase turn rate until you're down to the best speed the plane can manage at full flaps on edge of stall horn.

If I'm wrong, then explain how I've been killed by the same plane with same weight while I'm settled into best rate sustained turn.

[The Fugitive]

I agree with you MAR. What the numbers, charts, and "experts" say here doesn't always match up with what CAN be done in the game. Practice and pushing the "planes" to and past the limits teaches you what can be done far better than reading and studying charts.

We are not playing in a real world, its a virtual one and the rules are not always the same.

[FLS]

The nice thing about hypothetical situations is that they will demonstrate anything you want them to.

If you don't want to discuss ACM consider that nobody dragged you into the thread and forced you to. It seemed you complained about the lack of response. Now you're complaining about the response.

Baldeagl gets a clue why he usually gets an early exit from his dueling ladder and you see the thanks I get. 

Anyone posting nonsense like fugi's is going to get corrected. If that's a problem then don't post nonsense.