Best fighter Pilot

[Guppy35]

Someone made the obvious point already.  Too many extenuating circumstances to decide.  Could be the best fighter pilot ever was flying an inferior plane into a mob of higher superior performance planes and didn't live to tell the tale.

When I was reading a lot on the 474th FG P-38 pilots flying ground attack with the 9th AF one name stood out with them.  His name was Cpt. Earnest Nuckols.  He engaged in air to air combat exactly twice.  Both time he was leading 38s down low supporting ground troops.  Both times they were bounced by 40+ 109s and 190s.  On the first fight, August 25, 1944 the 38s were fighting from below against impossible odds.  The 25th was calle Black Friday due to the losses they took that Day.  Yet Nuckols survived it and claimed 3.  The second fight was right at the beginning of the Bulge.  Nuckols was leading 2 flights of 4 38s helping the ground troops.  His flight was bombing with the second flight as cover.  The 4 38s above were bounced by 40+ 109s that were joined by 20 190s.  Nuckols again was forced to fight from  below against overwhelming odds.  He didn't hesitate but went to try and help the cover flight. He claimed a 109 and somehow got in and out of that mess alive.

Maybe he was the best ever but due to only 2 engagements in the air he didnt get the press?

[Zimme83]

Last years of the war the average USAAF and RAF pilot were far better than the average LW pilot. If the question was "what air force had the best pilots overall"  i would say Finland.
But of cource the pilot training in WW2 could not be compared to what modern day fighter pilots get. So a squad of modern rookie fighter pilots in WW2 planes would prob do better than a squad of rookies back then.

[Zimme83]

Someone made the obvious point already.  Too many extenuating circumstances to decide.  Could be the best fighter pilot ever was flying an inferior plane into a mob of higher superior performance planes and didn't live to tell the tale.

When I was reading a lot on the 474th FG P-38 pilots flying ground attack with the 9th AF one name stood out with them.  His name was Cpt. Earnest Nuckols.  He engaged in air to air combat exactly twice.  Both time he was leading 38s down low supporting ground troops.  Both times they were bounced by 40+ 109s and 190s.  On the first fight, August 25, 1944 the 38s were fighting from below against impossible odds.  The 25th was calle Black Friday due to the losses they took that Day.  Yet Nuckols survived it and claimed 3.  The second fight was right at the beginning of the Bulge.  Nuckols was leading 2 flights of 4 38s helping the ground troops.  His flight was bombing with the second flight as cover.  The 4 38s above were bounced by 40+ 109s that were joined by 20 190s.  Nuckols again was forced to fight from  elbow against overwhelming odds.  He didn't hesitate but went to try and help the cover flight. He claimed a 109 and somehow got in and out of that mess alive.

Maybe he was the best ever but due to only 2 engagements in the air he didnt get the press?

The problem for him is that kind of encounters were no unusual for German and Finnish pilots in the east and there are quite a lot of stories of pilots being a0bounced by a superior number of enemys and still manage to get away with some kills. These two encounters doesnt make him standout against the others. Those LW pilots were most likley poorly trained rookies.

[Zimme83]

USAAF and RAF pilots had far lower chance of becoming a top ace because they had fewer cons to kill and flew a lot less than their German opponents. However, LW at the end concisted of a small number of top aces that were still alive and a bulk of poorly trained rookies rushed into action to replace losses. (same for the Japanese). So there are probably some western pilots that could have made the list if they had fought under different circumstances, but we will never know that.
USAAF and RAF could affort to give their pilots an extensive training, keep their time at the front fairly low and make the best ones instructors. Its a war winning concept but bad for making top aces. 

[Vraciu]

Hartmann lost a wingman but the guy survived the bailout.

Sakai never lost a wingman (even on a Kamikaze mission) and was able to out duel two dozen Hellcats in a battered Zeke with only one eye..........without a single round touching his fighter. 

[ink]

Hartmann lost a wingman but the guy survived the bailout.

Sakai never lost a wingman (even on a Kamikaze mission) and was able to out duel two dozen Hellcats in a battered Zeke with only one eye..........without a single round touching his fighter.

ahhh


sounds like I should read about him Sakai that is......never have

[Vraciu]

ahhh


sounds like I should read about him Sakai that is......never have

"Samurai!" is his autobiography.   I have read it five times.    It is engrossing.   Well worth the time spent.   

[icepac]

Akamatsu never had a bullet land on his plane the entire war and was surely a great stick but the truth of how many he won will really never be known.

The russian Poroshkin (sp) scored many victories in truly inferior aircraft and was responsible for many tactics that allowed the russians to be competitive.

Then we have shinohara who scored 10 kills on his first ever combat sortie and scored 58 victories in 3 months.

Like Akamatsu, he had more than 6 years flying experience before his first battle.

[Rich46yo]

Sometimes it seems the great IJN and IJA pilots get to little credit cause they ended up in a war again an allied juggernaut they had no hope against once it got rolling. Most of all the IJN. But they had some great fighter pilots.

But when you are unable to rotate your best back into training schools to train up your next top guns you are doomed to fail. Most of all when your CVs end up on the bottom of the ocean and your Industry has no hope of keeping up either numerically or technologically. The Luftwaffe got caught up in this losing battle as well, if not in material terms then in human ones. But in 1939 they were the best air forces in the world.

One day I may learn enough to say who was "best". But I sure dont have an answer now.

[Vraciu]

IJN was doomed in the Solomons meat grinder.    Didn't take long either, really.  Like you said, no replacements.

[Guppy35]

The problem for him is that kind of encounters were no unusual for German and Finnish pilots in the east and there are quite a lot of stories of pilots being a0bounced by a superior number of enemys and still manage to get away with some kills. These two encounters doesnt make him standout against the others. Those LW pilots were most likley poorly trained rookies.

Exactly my point.  There is no way to truly know as there are too many variables involved.  Short of giving everyone equal aircraft, equal sorties and seeing who is the last man standing, it's nothing but opinion.

[Karnak]

Johnnie Johnson got hit once only.  A reporter asked him why Hartmann, top ace, got 352 kills while Johnson, top Allied ace in Western Europe, only got 39 and Johnson told him that that he hadn't even seen that many enemy aircraft.

This is, ultimately, an impossible question to answer and any thing said on an internet forum is just going to be personal opinions and fanboy pissing contests.

There were many who might be a contender for "the best" and picking one is a fools errand.

[Muzzy]

Someone want to lay out an objective criteria for defining the best fighter pilot? Kill score can be factored in, but it shouldn't be weighted as heavily, much like slugging percentage.

[Bruv119]

"Samurai!" is his autobiography.   I have read it five times.    It is engrossing.   Well worth the time spent.

for a small battered second hand book I picked up off amazon for spare change it is one of my favourite reads in my collection.  Should go find it Ink I'm sure you will appreciate it. 

[earl1937]

Someone want to lay out an objective criteria for defining the best fighter pilot? Kill score can be factored in, but it shouldn't be weighted as heavily, much like slugging percentage.

I think, when trying to decide the "best" fighter pilot is something I have not seen anyone mention in this thread yet! Not just the air kills he had, but the effect that he had on air to air combat and his leadership skills.
When you look at it from that stand point, I think you have to re-think each of the high scoring aces which had a lot of air kills.
It has certainly been an interesting discussion! More people are in tune with what happened in world events than what I thought!
  to all who have weight in on the discussion!!