To Man the guns, or not. Is that the question ?

[DmonSlyr]

     So the Nits were drastically outnumbered today when I logged on. I sought refuge from the Horde onslaught by practicing my porking and deacking on a little out of the way base. I flew over and within minutes had dropped the Dar, the ords, and then deacked town. decided to press my luck and deack the base as well. I got all the auto guns down just as a Spit lifted off. Hoping for a decent fight, I extended away and let him get co alt, and pick up some E, then I turned back and merged. Sadly I was able to reverse on him immediately and he ran for the ack. (poor feller neglected to notice I had already killed it all    ) So I caught him and killed him. Then I hear the familiar sound of REVENGE MANNED GUN FIRE. I spent the next few minutes chasing this guy around the field killing the manned guns he was jumping into. good thing he was a worse shot than me !

   Now this is NOT a rant, Whine, Cry or any other such thing. I just want to open a conversation about this, and see where it leads.
 
     I think if you are manning a gun, you should be able to be killed. and for your death to count as a kill for the killer. You can shoot down planes and effect their stats or score, but you are completely safe from any negative outcome on your game.

    There are some VERY skilled gunners in game that pick planes outta the air from more than 1.5k out, and a lot further with the 88's. There's been more than a few occasions where I've chased somebody back to their base and killed them, or out fought them and killed them relatively close to their field, only to have them jump into an 88 or manned gun get a lucky shot on me  .

     Same base I attacked and deacked earlier.. Im inbound lookin for the cause of the dar bar, when I spot a high con. he dives on me, overshoots, and I easily gain his 6. He runs for the base, I kill him just outside of ack range. seconds later I see the single tracer, and puffy ack next to me. so I zoom in and kill the 88. starting heading for home, and boom, another ack burst, so I turn around and kill that 88.

    Shouldn't that person have 2 deaths recorded ? After all he was trying to kill me and if he succeeded I would have been penalized with a death. and why shouldn't I be awarded 2 kills ? I had to avoid his shots, bobbing and weaving, take aim and take him out. I had to put myself in danger and avoid being killed in order to kill him.  If a GV engages a plane, and the plane kills the GV, that GV gets a death, and the pilot is awarded a kill.

     So what's everybody's thoughts on manned gun kills/deaths not counting ?

I think that is a very rational arguement indeed!

[lyric1]

I honestly think if you tied a player in with a kill less people would be willing to man the guns.

Wrong.
As a proficient 37mm gunner I would care less if I died with the gun.
I tend to kill them before they get me.

[Bizman]

I can't land that amount of kills in any device in the game. Can't even kill that many acks alone.

So, because the manned ack in the right hands can seems to be at least as lethal as any weapon in this game, wouldn't it be about time to give it the glory and status it deserves?

[BaldEagl]

No, they shouldn't count as a kill.

First of all they are too vulnerable to enemy fire.  Nothing in the game is as easy to kill if you get a hit on it.  You can kill a manned ack with a .45 Cal revolver.

Second, they are a last line of defense.  When a field is being hoarded/vulched the ack are there to at least spoil the party or help a couple of fighters get airborn.  Who's going to up in the ack in these conditions and give the enemy a certain kill?

I heard you have the ultimate strategy of hitting .ef.  Imagine the whines when someone does this and another, braver player would have hung in.  As hard as it is to kill a bomber with a ship 5" imagine everyone bailing from the guns as soon as that bomber is in drop position and the vile on country for those players for losing the ship.

And finally what about those players that are new/not very good?  Are they going to take 1000 more deaths in manned ack trying to figure that part of the game out?

As timidly as people play I'd predict a big drop in numbers of players willing to form that last line of defense.  I don't think getting a kill for a manned ack would add anything to the game at all and only see it taking away.

If the guy you killed re-ups in a manned ack back off the field, let him get up and get E.  He's only there because he feels you won't let him off the field.

[Randy1]

Does not matter to me one way or another.  Run to your ack I will kill your ack.  Do not up and I will kill your ack.  Up after ack is down and you have become the sport of Kings!

That is why we need stronger field guns.  Deacking just to vulch is gaming the game.

[glzsqd]

That is why we need stronger field guns.  Deacking just to vulch is gaming the game.

In what way is it "gaming the game"?



Feild ack is fine where its at.

[caldera]

In what way is it "gaming the game"?



Feild ack is fine where its at.

He probably meant gayming the game. 

 -1 for kill credit on ack guns. 

Remove the landed message for kills in field guns if that bothers the vulching eunuchs so much, but killing an ack gun is much easier than killing a Storch.  A 20mm cannon shell landing anywhere near the gun takes it out.  And with rockets?  Pfffft.  De-ack with your eyes closed.

[Randy1]

In what way is it "gaming the game"?

As has been noted before AH is a game based simulation.  There is a fine balance between game and simulation.  When a person or persons take actions purely for their benefit it moves the balance toward the arcade.

[Lusche]

As has been noted before AH is a game based simulation.  There is a fine balance between game and simulation.  When a person or persons take actions purely for their benefit it moves the balance toward the arcade.

By that definition, about every action in AH is "gamey".... which it actually is, as AH is a game.

The term "gaming the game" is used inflationary and is pretty much hollow and without any actual meaning.

[DmonSlyr]

As has been noted before AH is a game based simulation.  There is a fine balance between game and simulation.  When a person or persons take actions purely for their benefit it moves the balance toward the arcade.

Well... Sometimes setting up a vulch in order to capture a base while not taking down FHs is necessary. It is not easy to kill all the ack withiut getting some kind of damage to your plane. The ack is already quite deadly. Also, in most cases, you have the opportunity to up from another base.

I think ack is perfectly strong enough, or maybe even too strong. That Puff ack is the scarriest thing in the game. Those ship puff ack guns are very easy to get kills.

I sorta agree with naughty because guns like that can ruin great sorties and end your fun comepletely out of no where just because a guy can point and shoot. 

I think doing this would limit a lot of players from avoiding fights and jumping into man ack guns with no worry of death. If players had risks associated with being in a manned gun, the decision to jump in one might be more of a thought.

[BaldEagl]

That is why we need stronger field guns.  Deacking just to vulch is gaming the game.

As has been noted before AH is a game based simulation.  There is a fine balance between game and simulation.  When a person or persons take actions purely for their benefit it moves the balance toward the arcade.

Any good war tactician/strategist knows that the best way to win an air war is to suppress the enemy and the best way of doing that is to destroy them on the ground.  Since we don't have nice lines of aircraft awaiting pilots in AH the equivalent is pinning them to their base and the best way to do that is to destroy their ground defenses then kill them as they try to take off.  Seems pretty well simulated to me.

[Bizman]

Nothing in the game is as easy to kill if you get a hit on it.  You can kill a manned ack with a .45 Cal revolver.

Tanks can be killed with the .45, too. Not to mention troops in the Maproom. I've seen both happen, several times. Somehow I have missed the stories of a bailed pilot deacking a field with his .45.

[Someguy63]

sure make them count as kills, but you need something for a gunner to be able to earn. gunners don't currently get anything. no perks, no score..  what category would you have manned guns earn perks in?

i spend most of my time in manned guns because i hate vulching.

Have the perks placed in the category of whatever you have killed. Kill a B17, get a number of perks placed in bomber category.

[ink]

personally I think ALL ack/field guns should be AI....

you want to take out vulchers roll a 25% LA.....or roll from another base and take on that huge hoard by yourself if need be....


come in above them they can not touch you....fly smart and aggressive...you would be surprised how fun that can be....

me I always fight it out and absolutely take my death when I lose position or they just have some higher...which happens alot haha


but there are days that I am fighting 7-10 people and have killed a couple already...I am literally shaking from adrenaline....

there is no way a field gun or even GVs will give someone that kind of rush....



that and only that I realized is what keeps me in AH

I used to hit 145+ to get that kinda rush....


I would say this is much safer 







oh wait damn it my cartoon might die though...I shouldn't fly like that my cartoon life/score is EVERYTHING

<-------to bad that is the mentality of most of the MA.

[Arlo]

Shooting troops with a .45 at least is physically possible. I wanna see a film of a tank being taken out by a .45.