Author Topic: 'Real' dogfighting.  (Read 3784 times)

Offline Serenity

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2015, 04:22:26 PM »
According to Dos Gringos, the appropriate meal before an ACT flight is a greasy chimichanga and 2 tequila shots.

But then he'll be running down the hallways like he's never run before, beginning to wonder if he'd make it to the door...

Offline cpxxx

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2015, 12:21:40 PM »
Is there a stuff like that somewhere in Europe?

Even Aerobatics only?
Here you go http://www.ultimatehigh.co.uk/producthome/Corporate_Events/Top_Gun_Day

It is in England though. Bit of a trip from Israel. There are quite a few places offering aerobatic experiences around Europe. But be prepared to feel very sick. The first time I flew in a Pitts special. my head was spinning and my stomach churning even though I was already a pilot.

In fact I read somewhere that non pilots in air combat simulations often do better than pilots because they don't over think and worry about over stressing the aircraft and fly it like it was a computer game. If I had any advice it's would be not to over think it and enjoy the moment.

It's on my bucket list.

Offline artik

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2015, 04:13:16 AM »
Here you go http://www.ultimatehigh.co.uk/producthome/Corporate_Events/Top_Gun_Day

It is in England though. Bit of a trip from Israel. There are quite a few places offering aerobatic experiences around Europe.

And I was in UK and missed this  :cry :cry :cry :cry
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline cpxxx

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2015, 08:33:56 PM »
And I was in UK and missed this  :cry :cry :cry :cry
Doh! I only found out when I happened to be there looking at some old Hunters parked on the peri road and saw some guys poncing around in pilot overalls. If only I had the money!

Offline Spitter

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2015, 04:07:59 PM »
You should definitely post videos of what its like here.
Oh, I definitely will do!

Not sure what they use for a hard deck.  1k', I think, maybe a bit higher.  BTW, this isn't happening until the end of next April, so I got plenty of time to think about it (and save up the $$$).

Offline Serenity

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #50 on: July 10, 2015, 10:03:06 AM »
Oh, I definitely will do!

Not sure what they use for a hard deck.  1k', I think, maybe a bit higher.  BTW, this isn't happening until the end of next April, so I got plenty of time to think about it (and save up the $$$).

New breakfast idea (This is what I've been doing after a few air-sickness issues): Two packages of the cheese-and-crackers you can get at the corner store lol.

Offline pembquist

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #51 on: July 10, 2015, 01:12:04 PM »
Oh, I definitely will do!

Not sure what they use for a hard deck.  1k', I think, maybe a bit higher.  BTW, this isn't happening until the end of next April, so I got plenty of time to think about it (and save up the $$$).

This means you'll have plenty of time to ride merry go rounds, get spun in a swivel chair with a blind fold and head between your knees and then sit up, go fishing in a sloppy sea etc. Seriously though if you can get any time in a small plane on a bumpy day close to when you fly it will help you acclimate a little.
Pies not kicks.

Offline eagl

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #52 on: July 10, 2015, 04:26:17 PM »
Literally any small plane flying will help avoid getting airsick.  No substitute for real world exposure to the environment you'll be in, because even a few flights will help accustom your body to the new inputs.  The vibration and sound of the motor, weight of the headset, sun glare, different movement axis, etc.  Expose your body to all that stuff a few times and you'll be far less likely to have your body take an informal poll of your sensory organs and hold a revolution or protest activity.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Russian

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2015, 09:07:23 PM »
Post a video so we can debrief you "patch" style.

Offline Bear76

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2015, 01:50:00 AM »
Never. Ever. Turn.   :aok

Offline Puma44

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2015, 02:24:42 PM »
Literally any small plane flying will help avoid getting airsick.  No substitute for real world exposure to the environment you'll be in, because even a few flights will help accustom your body to the new inputs.  The vibration and sound of the motor, weight of the headset, sun glare, different movement axis, etc.  Expose your body to all that stuff a few times and you'll be far less likely to have your body take an informal poll of your sensory organs and hold a revolution or protest activity.
Well said, Eagl. 
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 02:31:50 PM by Puma44 »



All gave some, Some gave all

Offline Puma44

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2015, 02:39:05 PM »
Never. Ever. Turn.   :aok

Aerial combat is a constantly fluid environment.  Therefore, using "never" or "always" as recommendations has the potential of making one predictable,  something that can quickly put you on the losing end of an engagement.   :salute

Check six, especially deep six!   :D



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Offline eagl

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2015, 05:39:08 PM »
Aerial combat is a constantly fluid environment.  Therefore, using "never" or "always" as recommendations has the potential of making one predictable,  something that can quickly put you on the losing end of an engagement.   :salute

Check six, especially deep six!   :D

I have it on good authority from French Mirage 2000N crews (from a discussion in the O-club) that turning is something you "never" do.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline DaveBB

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2015, 07:41:20 PM »
According to an F-16 test pilot on F-16.net, delta wing aircraft experience much higher drag at high angles of attack than other types of fighters.
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline eagl

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Re: 'Real' dogfighting.
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2015, 08:41:00 PM »
That's a partial truth about delta wings.  Even the F-16 has a delta wing.  It just has a conventional tail too.  The benefit of a delta wing planform, whether  a tailless delta or a winged delta (or canard delta) is that it has a very flat lift curve.  Yes, drag increases dramatically as AOA increases, but you also get neat vortices that keep producing lots of lift even at or after lift starts decreasing as AOA continues to increase.  With a conventional wing, lift drops off rapidly resulting in an abrupt stall.  With any delta wing planform, the lift tapers off gradually while drag increases at a very rapid rate.  So you can fly a delta wing aircraft at a nice high AOA and still have it be very flyable since it is still controllable in the "stall".

This is one reason why the mig-21 was and still is considered a dangerous dogfight opponent.  Its low speed high AOA handling was very good due to the delta wing.

A tailless delta wing aircraft like the B-58 hustler and mirage fighters rely more on the vortices than the F-16.  Also, pretty much any delta wing aircraft gets HUGE benefits from a drooping leading edge flap as AOA increases.

Yea, that F-16 pilot said part of the truth.  The rest of the truth is that he's flying a delta wing fighter and his flight control computers keep him from getting deep into the part of the AOA regime where drag increases super quickly as lift slowly drops off.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.