Hawker crash at airshow today

[rpm]

Vintage jets will not be allowed to perform "high-energy aerobatics" over land at UK air shows after the Shoreham crash. A spokesman for CAA said the restrictions would remain in place until further notice, and it would be conducting "additional risk assessments on all forthcoming civil air displays".
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34044383

[Widewing]

I watched the crash video several times and consulted with a friend who regularly flies a MiG-15 and F-86 at airshows....

The loop was started too low. Net result is the aircraft reached the apex too low. When the pilot realized that he may not have enough altitude, he dumped flaps and pulled hard on the elevators. This resulted in a nose high accelerated stall, (note that the Hunter dropped the left wing when it stalled) and the Hunter simply pancaked. Pilot error.

This is a common mistake, one most pilots only make once.

This video shows the stall very well....

[SysError]

"Shoreham Airshow disaster: Hawker Hunter's final take-off 'unusual' expert says"

One possible reason:

"Looking at the video the aircraft take-off looks different. Obviously the plane did not fly in the way it should have done. No-one is going to know the answer until the investigation is complete."

"He suggested noise abatement starting procedures may have been in place for the flight so as not to disturb residents with the loud noise."

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/13623792.Shoreham_Airshow_disaster__Hawker_Hunter_s_final_take_off__unusual__expert_says/

[cpxxx]

I watched the crash video several times and consulted with a friend who regularly flies a MiG-15 and F-86 at airshows....

The loop was started too low. Net result is the aircraft reached the apex too low. When the pilot realized that he may not have enough altitude, he dumped flaps and pulled hard on the elevators. This resulted in a nose high accelerated stall, (note that the Hunter dropped the left wing when it stalled) and the Hunter simply pancaked. Pilot error.

This is a common mistake, one most pilots only make once.

This video shows the stall very well....

This is possible and no doubt one of the options being explored. However the use of flaps during manoeuvres is SOP in the Hunter. I know it because I saw the same aircraft and pilot in two separate displays recently. Flaps were down except for the high speed passes.

One other point is that the London TMA starts 5500 above the airport. This might have been a factor in the accident.

[cpxxx]

"Shoreham Airshow disaster: Hawker Hunter's final take-off 'unusual' expert says"

One possible reason:

"Looking at the video the aircraft take-off looks different. Obviously the plane did not fly in the way it should have done. No-one is going to know the answer until the investigation is complete."

"He suggested noise abatement starting procedures may have been in place for the flight so as not to disturb residents with the loud noise."

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/13623792.Shoreham_Airshow_disaster__Hawker_Hunter_s_final_take_off__unusual__expert_says/

Wow, I seen some stupid reports from so called experts. But that has to be the stupidest. He saw the take off at an entirely different airport and he 'knew" something was wrong. What a genius! Somehow the ex RAF pilot on board failed to notice any problem and carried on anyway.

The media have once again lowered the bar in their reporting. Journalism has become a shameful profession.

[Zimme83]

Its not the first accident of this type, The Thunderbird crash was in most part identical and there was a Eurofighter nearly crashed in a similar way.

I think that a way to avoid it is to ban airshow maneuvers at low altitiude that goes "downwards" and require a high AoA to pull out of the dive, like the split-S and similar maneuvers.

[DaveBB]

Why is there such a failing in such simple maneuvers?  You need X amount of altitude and Y amount of airspeed to start a loop.  Add a safety margin of 25% to each one.  Which I'm sure there probably already is.

Is it a human factor?  Are these highly experienced pilots embarrassed if they have to abort a maneuver?  There is definitely some confounding factor at play here.

[SysError]

Wow, I seen some stupid reports from so called experts. But that has to be the stupidest. He saw the take off at an entirely different airport and he 'knew" something was wrong. What a genius! Somehow the ex RAF pilot on board failed to notice any problem and carried on anyway.

The media have once again lowered the bar in their reporting. Journalism has become a shameful profession.

I think that you are over reading it.

[DmonSlyr]

I am happy that the pilot is still alive. Have not heard any reports of him yet. I'm sure he will be able to tell exactly what happened if he is able to speak. I have no idea how injured he is. Trying to get reports on it.

[DaveBB]

The ejection seat charge did fire.  Unknown whether it was caused by the force of impact or the pilot initiated it himself. 

A former RAF instructor pilot does blast Andy Hill for entering the loop too low.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3209925/RAF-instructor-says-Shoreham-jet-pilot-showing-lunatic-manoeuvre-never-flown-100ft.html

[Bruv119]

I am happy that the pilot is still alive. Have not heard any reports of him yet. I'm sure he will be able to tell exactly what happened if he is able to speak. I have no idea how injured he is. Trying to get reports on it.

last I saw on his condition was that he was put in an induced coma.

[MiloMorai]

This 'expert' needs to look at a map. There is open land north of the airport and housing south of the airport.

Are not all ejection seats deactivated?

[cpxxx]

The ejection seat charge did fire.  Unknown whether it was caused by the force of impact or the pilot initiated it himself. 

A former RAF instructor pilot does blast Andy Hill for entering the loop too low.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3209925/RAF-instructor-says-Shoreham-jet-pilot-showing-lunatic-manoeuvre-never-flown-100ft.html

That's the Daily Mail. You cannot trust them.
Look a good friend a former RAF Harrier pilot knew Andy, another Harrier pilot. Harrier pilots were the best of the best. Perhaps that colours my viewpoint because I know he's the best pilot I ever met.. I think something went wrong and I think the investigation will bear that out.
It's not as if I have illusions, a few friends of mine killed themselves doing something stupid. There is nothing like doing a missing man formation over a funeral of someone you know who effed up. You do it for the family but you keep your mouth shut. I didn't know this man but it's far from sure he screwed the pooch. Check the right stuff!

[SysError]

Update from Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB):

Shoreham air crash: jet showed no 'abnormal indications'

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/13647188.Shoreham_air_crash__jet_showed_no__abnormal_indications_/

[craz07]

It was the pilots fault or it sure looked that way, he pulled the loop way too low and over a highway, I can't believe he is still alive...