Top Late War Killers

[DmonSlyr]

While this is definitely true, it isn't all that useful for aggressive BnZing.
I will grant that there are a lot of really bad P-51 drivers to encounter out there so the fact that I consistently out turned P-51Ds in the Mossie VI to the point that I actively sought them out does not necessarily mean that the Mossie turns better than the P-51D.  In my experience it does though.

The mosquito, like most 2 engine planes, including the 110, have very quick lift vectors. After a loop, they can pull up very quickly and get inside the oponents loop for a shot. So while it could get inside the P51 for a shot, the P51 cpuld also most likely pull for rope, where the mosquito fails to get a shot in a slow spiral climb with its poor roll rate, then the P51 has the E advantage all day.

While this is definitely true, it isn't all that useful for aggressive BnZing.


No, but they are highly useful defending against higher alt cons who are diving on you. The flaps allow you to make sharper turns going fast and can therefore easily get planes to overshoot for a barrel roll defense.

[Karnak]

A strictly vertical fight will be very even, at lower altitudes, as the Mossie has the same climb rate/acceleration as the P-51D.  I've never had any trouble staying on top of a P-51 when I start with the E advantage.  P-51 won't be roping a Mossie VI unless it started with a lot more E, and due to the Mossie's center mounted cannons that could be a dodgy tactic.  A sustained spiral climb will favor the P-51, but if you've gotten into a situation where you're using that tactic you've already failed at the aggressive BnZing tactic.  Players being even, a fight between a Mossie VI and P-51D should go to the one that started with more E.  Just hammer the E out of the guy with less E and then kill him.  Neither plane builds E fast enough to avoid that when being forced to bleed E in order to dodge.

In my turning comparison I was speaking in the horizontal which a lot of P-51D drivers will do against the Mossie and, as I always found it made for an easy kill, I'd accept.  Only a few fighters I'll willingly turn fight in the Mossie: Me410, P-51D, Tempest, Me262, Fw190s and P-47s.

[Oldman731]

a fight between a Mossie VI and P-51D should go to the one that started with more E. 

True of most match-ups.

- oldman

[glzsqd]

You wanna bet on that?

OH YEA!

Person who wins gets to post nudes!

[DmonSlyr]

A strictly vertical fight will be very even, at lower altitudes, as the Mossie has the same climb rate/acceleration as the P-51D.  I've never had any trouble staying on top of a P-51 when I start with the E advantage.  P-51 won't be roping a Mossie VI unless it started with a lot more E, and due to the Mossie's center mounted cannons that could be a dodgy tactic.  A sustained spiral climb will favor the P-51, but if you've gotten into a situation where you're using that tactic you've already failed at the aggressive BnZing tactic.  Players being even, a fight between a Mossie VI and P-51D should go to the one that started with more E.  Just hammer the E out of the guy with less E and then kill him.  Neither plane builds E fast enough to avoid that when being forced to bleed E in order to dodge.

In my turning comparison I was speaking in the horizontal which a lot of P-51D drivers will do against the Mossie and, as I always found it made for an easy kill, I'd accept.  Only a few fighters I'll willingly turn fight in the Mossie: Me410, P-51D, Tempest, Me262, Fw190s and P-47s.

A mossie that is diving all over you is tough to avoid. It takes experienced defensive tactics to avoid the shots. Really and truely the P51 could run away from the mossy if the E equals out during a cross over, which would allow the P51 to escape the fight. The Mossie actually does turn quite well and can catch many inexperienced pilots off guard in a turn fight. I do however believe that in a DA fight 1v1 the P51 would win most of the time on the merge, but would lose in the roll overs if the fight got slow. The P51 is a much better diver and the flaps allow it to take advantage of planes at high speeds. The P51 is much more balanced and easier to fly. The mossie is more of an advanced plane. While it could possibly win a few turn fights 1v1, it is simply much more difficult to be successful in and doesn't hold E nearly as well after a dive. The P51 is a F16 as a mossie is to A10 warthog with an incredible lift vector.

[Karnak]

51 is only a better diver if the altitude it high enough to get past about 480mph.  Up to that speed I'll bet the Mossie is superior.

Running, well, the 51D has a 10mph advantage on the deck, but if you use your .303s you can keep him slower than you pretty frequently, then run him down as soon as he has to climb.  I've done that on a number of occasions. 10mph is useful, but not enough if you don't have much distance at the start.

[JunkyII]

The mossie could hang with a P51 in a duel situation...no doubt.

But to say the P51 isn't the better plane at BnZ is just crazy. Only "advantage" the Mossie has is the ability to look over the nose. Has more guns but the 6 50 setup aint a bad thing.

[Karnak]

The mossie could hang with a P51 in a duel situation...no doubt.

But to say the P51 isn't the better plane at BnZ is just crazy. Only "advantage" the Mossie has is the ability to look over the nose. Has more guns but the 6 50 setup aint a bad thing.

In an aggressive BnZ at low altitudes they are practically the same.  In the "make a pass and run away" BnZ the P-51 is certainly superior.  The P-51 is also completely superior at higher altitudes.

[JunkyII]

In an aggressive BnZ at low altitudes they are practically the same.  In the "make a pass and run away" BnZ the P-51 is certainly superior.  The P-51 is also completely superior at higher altitudes.

P51 can drop flaps at almost any speed, this is huge in the MA, you can saddle up on even some of the most veteran of sticks pretty easily. I would agree they are similar bit I don't think the P51 is under modeled because of it...Mossy was know for its low altitude operations.

[save]

Did they not have a high altitude version of the Mossie fighter ?

[Karnak]

P51 can drop flaps at almost any speed, this is huge in the MA, you can saddle up on even some of the most veteran of sticks pretty easily. I would agree they are similar bit I don't think the P51 is under modeled because of it...Mossy was know for its low altitude operations.

It is true that the P-51's flaps can be deployed at higher speeds, but for the way I aggressively BnZ that isn't useful.  I wouldn't want to use flaps at the bottom as I am not going for a shooting angle there and flaps would bleed more E out.  I do use flaps coming over the top, but anything can deploy them at that point.

Did they not have a high altitude version of the Mossie fighter ?

Yes, the NF.Mk.30, which I would love to have in AH.  Top speeds reported from 416mph to 424mph at 27,000ft.

[bozon]

Did they not have a high altitude version of the Mossie fighter ?

The night Fighter versions were optimized for operating at 20k or slightly higher because that is where the German bombers were operating. The 1943+ NF versions could do better than 400 mph up there. The NF.30 was the best high alt Fighter mossie and near war's end was even used as day escort to bombers. It was a rare operation and I don't think they ever met the LW in that role.

Our mossie FB.VI being the fighter-bomber version, was optimised for operations under 10k, but still kept a two speed charger so its performance did not drop off so bad up to 22k. Our bomber B.XVI is faster than the FB.VI starting from about 7k.

From my experience, I'd say that with competent players, the mossie and p51 are about equal, each has its little specific advantages though.

[SFRT - Frenchy]

The mossie only needs a hint of a snapshot to down the pony due to canons being howitzers in Aces High. That will win a fight over E. Case closed. 

[Scherf]

Heh, I suck at pretty much everything AH, but it's not rare to encounter a 51 in which self confidence > E.

Yums.

[TonyJoey]

With many other facets of performance being similar, the high speed flaps of the Pony will get you inside a Mossie's turn in a duel. It wouldn't even be a close fight in my opinion for that simple fact. Once you have that little bit of an edge there is not much the Mossie can do to escape. When fighting most of the other plane set, if you choose to go for angles on the merge, you had better saddle up or convert quickly because once the fight gets slow the 51 is not nearly as effective as it tends to wallow, especially in a scissors. However, against a Mossie, the 51 is just as good if not better at slower speeds so the initial angles advantage would be decisive.