Author Topic: Stories from FL280...  (Read 35448 times)

Offline Serenity

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #360 on: April 27, 2017, 12:26:33 PM »
The wife already refers to you as 'Maverick.' I had to explain that someone else already stole that CPID.

"How's your friend, Maverick, doing with his flight training?"

(She's a creature of correlation.)

Don't let her down. I expect a true Top Gun thread later. ;)

I have officially decided to throw out the advice my LSOs have been giving me, (That's not a "They suck!" comment, but rather, I can't color by numbers. If you tell me HOW to do it, I get so wrapped up trying to hit the intermediate checkpoints, I screw up the end result) and I'm already seeing 100% better passes in the sim. I'm actually confident this time that I'll get it! Whenever we actually fly, that is...

Offline NatCigg

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #361 on: April 27, 2017, 03:30:26 PM »
what happens to a guy when he gets caught jamming to Kenny Loggins at the fighter school dorms?  :D

when you get there Serenity, you need to play this very loud!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCTJmXrgsFg&index=12&list=PL981C78A41565A87F

I never saw this video before.  what a solo.


Offline DaveBB

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #362 on: April 27, 2017, 03:40:26 PM »
I have officially decided to throw out the advice my LSOs have been giving me, (That's not a "They suck!" comment, but rather, I can't color by numbers. If you tell me HOW to do it, I get so wrapped up trying to hit the intermediate checkpoints, I screw up the end result) and I'm already seeing 100% better passes in the sim. I'm actually confident this time that I'll get it! Whenever we actually fly, that is...

If you wanted to, could you transfer to the USAF right now since you are so far along in the flight program?  Your idea sounds pretty dangerous to a lay-person like myself.  Ramp Strike!*

*That is a reference to a pilot in the book "Feet Wet" who used to visually fly his own carrier approaches. He eventually had a ramp strike with his F-8 and was killed.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 03:41:59 PM by DaveBB »
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline Serenity

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #363 on: April 27, 2017, 03:59:02 PM »
If you wanted to, could you transfer to the USAF right now since you are so far along in the flight program?  Your idea sounds pretty dangerous to a lay-person like myself.  Ramp Strike!*

*That is a reference to a pilot in the book "Feet Wet" who used to visually fly his own carrier approaches. He eventually had a ramp strike with his F-8 and was killed.

Perhaps it needs some clarification. I'm talking about the procedure to get to the "start" of the ball flying.

I was told in the last phase, that ABSOLUTELY EVERY SINGLE TIME you turn crosswind, you HAVE to be at 130kts and 30 degrees angle of bank. "If you'll accept anything else in the cross turn, you'll accept other deviations later, and you'll die". So I did that. Every time, I was at EXACTLY 130/30. But that put me at 1.1-1.2nm abeam. But I was told "You have to be at 1.0 abeam, that's what the turn geometry is designed for." So, now I'm making intermediate corrections between intermediate checkpoints, but by god if I didn't hit 1.0 abeam EVERY single time. And so I was told "Use 27-28 degrees angle of bank in the approach turn, because you might need MORE, and you CAN'T go above 30 degrees", so I used 27-28 every single time. "Look out at the 90 degree point, and start making corrections for lineup then", so I did this. And with hitting all of these intermediate checkpoints along the way, I was still NOT getting a good start consistently. And so I would ask "Well, I'm not getting to a good start, what should I do?" and I was told "Just make sure you're hitting exactly those numbers"...

Going back and working at it on my own, not worrying about hitting the prescribed intermediate checkpoints, I've found that so far, 128kts and 33 degrees AOB for the crosswind turn puts me at .9nm abeam. And from .9nm abeam, I go straight to 30 degrees AOB and DON'T make corrections at the 90, keep heads in until the 45. THEN take about 2 degrees AOB out, if necessary. And through these methods, I get to a textbook start position for the ball.

I'm not saying I'm going to just ignore everything and wing it. I'm developing a variation to more consistently put me in the position I need to get to.

For me, this is an issue I've encountered before. One of the first things we do when we get here, is barrel rolls under the hood. Now, I've done barrel rolls before, quite well. But our manual says "Initiate a 4G pull to x degrees above the horizon. At x1 degrees above the horizon, roll to y degrees angle of bank. At z degrees off initial heading, be at x2 degrees above the horizon, and y1 degrees angle of bank. At z1 degrees off of initial heading, be x3 degrees above the horizon..." etc. And so the first three events I attempted to adhere to these numbers exactly, and it led to a borderline unsafe lack of control. What finally got me back to my perfect barrel rolls was an IP watching me go through this and saying "Don't focus on those exact checkpoints. Don't THINK about how to do a barrel roll, just DO a barrel roll". And what do you know? The next attempt was damned near perfect. And this has repeated throughout flight school. The more I get into the weeds on the method, the worse the results. The more I focus on the big picture, the better the results.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 04:08:28 PM by Serenity »

Offline zxrex

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #364 on: April 27, 2017, 04:05:50 PM »
You do what you need to do.  There's a difference between a technique and a procedure.

Offline Golfer

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #365 on: April 27, 2017, 04:10:32 PM »
You're thinking too much. Fly the airplane, fly the profile, know where you are, know where you're going and above all be in charge of the airplane.

All I have is if you are prohibited from using more than 30 degrees angle of bank in the pattern, then don't use 33. If that's a hard and fast limitation then I wouldn't deviate from it outside of an abnormal or emergency or preventing such if practicable.  That rule sounds written in blood to me for those black hole nights over the water.

At this stage, you don't know better than your instructors.  YMMV and who knows...maybe you do?

Offline Serenity

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #366 on: April 27, 2017, 04:12:19 PM »
You're thinking too much. Fly the airplane, fly the profile, know where you are, know where you're going and above all be in charge of the airplane.

All I have is if you are prohibited from using more than 30 degrees angle of bank in the pattern, then don't use 33. If that's a hard and fast limitation then I wouldn't deviate from it outside of an abnormal or emergency or preventing such if practicable.  That rule sounds written in blood to me for those black hole nights over the water.

At this stage, you don't know better than your instructors.  YMMV and who knows...maybe you do?

The "Don't go above 30 degrees in the cross turn" isn't a natops limit, it's just the prescribed starting point in the FTI that should put you at the correct abeam point. Unfortunately, it doesn't always do that, and so following it exactly was hurting me rather than getting me where I need the aircraft to be.  But then again, by this point, there's almost more misinformation in the FTI than good information, as it still references the Alpha model lol. But your first point is exactly right. Too much THINKING about how to get the plane there, no enough just PUTTING the plane there. I was too spooled around the axis of following the recommended techniques exactly, that I wasn't deviating to find MY best technique.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 04:18:30 PM by Serenity »

Offline Golfer

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #367 on: April 27, 2017, 04:21:17 PM »
You live in a world with wind, so do what you gotta do. Glad it's not a hard limitation and just the profile.  That should be alright then.

I imagine once you're used to what looks and feels right it'll be second nature. You just have to screw it up a few times to figure out where it is. You'll be alright. Just don't f@&$ it up.

Offline Serenity

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #368 on: April 27, 2017, 04:24:37 PM »
You live in a world with wind, so do what you gotta do. Glad it's not a hard limitation and just the profile.  That should be alright then.

I imagine once you're used to what looks and feels right it'll be second nature. You just have to screw it up a few times to figure out where it is. You'll be alright. Just don't f@&$ it up.

lol yeah, and boy was the wind a PITA the last time! When the runway heading is changing by 45 degrees every minute or so it really messes with your pattern lol.

FWIW, I've talked through all of my ideas technique with our squadron's head LSO in my board and his words were pretty much "Hey, if it gets you to a good consistent start, do what you gotta do".

Offline Nefarious

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #369 on: April 28, 2017, 09:09:28 AM »
Ironically I just finished Stephen Coonts sequel to "Flight of the Intruder" , titled "Intruders"... It focuses on the main characters post war cruise and naturally talks about the dangers of flying from the carrier.

The mundane and sheer terror, couldn't help to thinking of you and your quest. Good luck dude, you got this easy!

There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Serenity

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #370 on: April 28, 2017, 09:10:24 AM »
So, this oxygen thing has become so far-spread, we have a snapchat filter for it lol. It's glorious...

Offline colmbo

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #371 on: April 28, 2017, 09:45:09 AM »
Serenity long ago when learning Lazy 8s I found the same thing...trying to hit the points at the 45 etc didn't work.  If you just fly the Lazy 8 a GOOD one will result in you hitting the reference points.

What Golfer said ref living in a world with wind.  I was thinking wow, if you are set to specific bank angles and speeds how do you compensate for the ocean of air we fly around in.  Good to now you can vary.

Envious of where you are man...
Columbo

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Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline Maverick

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #372 on: April 28, 2017, 10:13:12 AM »
When I was first learning to fly I was very intent on paying strict attention to the "numbers". Hit the proper speed before doing the next item in the list to land. Hit the exact heading, be on the exact rate of decent and so on. I was having a hard time in night landings because of it. The instructor pilot figured out the problem. In the turn to downwind she shut off all the cockpit lights. Everything was dark, then she said fly the airplane. Funny thing is it worked like a charm. She said that landing was the best I had done with her in the seat next to me. Yup the little piper ain't a goshawk but the principle was the same. Fly the plane first then use gages to check yourself instead of flying the gages.

Similar thing happened on an early flight in a helo. I was chasing the altimeter and not holding steady. My buddy said to get my head out of the cockpit and just fly. The bird settled down and was nice and steady from then on.

You have this nailed.
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #373 on: April 28, 2017, 10:12:03 PM »
When I was first learning to fly I was very intent on paying strict attention to the "numbers". Hit the proper speed before doing the next item in the list to land. Hit the exact heading, be on the exact rate of decent and so on. I was having a hard time in night landings because of it. The instructor pilot figured out the problem. In the turn to downwind she shut off all the cockpit lights. Everything was dark, then she said fly the airplane. Funny thing is it worked like a charm. She said that landing was the best I had done with her in the seat next to me. Yup the little piper ain't a goshawk but the principle was the same. Fly the plane first then use gages to check yourself instead of flying the gages.

Similar thing happened on an early flight in a helo. I was chasing the altimeter and not holding steady. My buddy said to get my head out of the cockpit and just fly. The bird settled down and was nice and steady from then on.

You have this nailed.

Numbers are a range, not a target.  They're a starting point that you tweak. 

Example.   My jet the gouge we experienced use is Fuel Flow x 2 = Airspeed.    But weight, temp, etc. will mess with this.   It gets you in the ballpark.   

I am old school and learned the Pitch, Power, Perfromance method.   You can fail as many pitot tubes on me as you like.  I know what my jet is doing based on where things are.   

So vary based on condition.  Columbo, Puma, you, and others have made great comments. 

You cannot legislate technique.   Stay within the parameters and mold them to your style.   

Serenity, you will be fine.   Do not try to be too smart or overthink this.   Just do your thing.   
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Stories from FL280...
« Reply #374 on: April 30, 2017, 11:15:43 AM »
It's very easy in any phase of a flying career to get distracted with the pizz ants and not see the elephant charging at you.

An emergency procedure that applies to any emergency or non normal situation.
  1.  Maintain aircraft control.
  2.  Analyze the situation.
  3.  Take the appropriate action.
  4.  Maintain situational awareness.



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