Star Wars Episode VII in one word: Terrible (SPOILERS!)

[Serenity]

So a little background: I'm the biggest Star Wars fan I've ever met. It goes beyond loving the movies, I've read almost every book, every technical diagram, played every game... I know the Star Wars universe inside and out. This is relevant for two reasons: One, I'm invested in this personally, so it means more to me than most. Two, I went in with a bit of a bias, seeing as Disney had already destroyed what I loved most, the Extended Universe (Which WAS, and will ALWAYS be canon in my eyes...)

I tried to keep an open mind, but this is what I thought. From a purely cinematic standpoint, (Ignoring the EU conflicts, and only looking at previous movies)

1) Disney got their hit in early. A Stormtrooper and a random renegade survive a fight, and immediately have a Hannah Montana moment literally jumping up and down saying "You're so great!" "No, YOU'RE great!" "We're such a great team!" WAY to giddy. It wasn't the kind of real emotion we saw particularly in the original trilogy. It was downright Disney.

2) There wasn't much story building. I personally felt as if it was rolling from one fight scene to another without having you really connect with the characters.

3) There was no personal development. EVERYTHING was handed to you upfront. In the first 10 minutes of the male and female meeting, obviously they have feelings for each other and are already making the romantic move. Within the first 10 minutes of seeing the bad guy "He's Han's son". Nothing builds, it's just suddenly there.

4) Everything was TOO easy. This isn't like Death Star easy, where it was a plan to let the Rebels go so they could track them to their base. Every fight scene followed the same script:
    1. A thousand bad guys show up. Everyone freaks out.
    2. 5 good guys show up.
    3. All of the bad guys die or run away from the 5 good guys.
There's no suspense, there's never any real feeling of danger. As soon as a Resistance member shows up, everything is peachy.

5) So... apparently The Force is easier to master all of a sudden. A person who has never seen a Jedi, had only heard wives tales and didn't think they were real, gets told once "It's all true", and then on the VERY FIRST TRY controls the mind of a Stormtrooper, beats the Sith Lord in a lightsaber fight (Well, another random person who's never learned to use a Lightsaber also does this, so clearly the good guys will always win easily, no matter WHO they are, without any semblance of struggle) and then manages to overpower his use of the force, all within the first two thirds of the movie.

6) There's another Death Star. X-wings fly down a trench. They slip through a gap, shoot torpedoes, and the whole thing blows up. It's literally IV and VI all over again, but without any of the buildup. Those planetary shields that were a problem on Naboo, Hoth and Endor? Oh, yeah, we can just hyperspace jump INSIDE them, and not have to take them out at all in the Falcon.

7) So... the Empire is gone. I can swallow this. They call themselves something else. And the Republic is back. But... the Republic doesn't do anything to get rid of the New Empire, so Leia is a Rebel. Again. With a small Rebel group fighting the Empire. Again.

The prequels were bad, but they at least FELT like Star Wars. I went into this with a truly open mind, and I came out horribly disappointed. Not only did it pander to the Disney/quick action crowds, but it didn't even FEEL like the universe I'd grown to love.

About the only thing that I'm happy about is that the new Empire has a new symbol, so that my support for the Star Wars universe that was will not be misconstrued for this new low.

[bustr]

The Clone Wars animation series had bigger balls and better story lines. Did you ever wonder what would happen to an arse kicking universe after participation trophy's were handed out? Even Space Balls was done better as a spoof. May The Schwartz be with you......

[Serenity]

The Clone Wars animation series had bigger balls and better story lines. Did you ever wonder what would happen to an arse kicking universe after participation trophy's were handed out? Even Space Balls was done better as a spoof. May The Schwartz be with you......

Bigger balls and better storylines than VII?

[ridley1]

I think Disney was your first clue.

[mthrockmor]

It was a joke. Who is this 50 foot Sith Lord junk? I thought all storm troopers were grown in some factory, cloned after Bobafet? Some homeless chick suddenly knows the engineering space of the Falcon? yada, yada, yada, yada....the quality of screen writing was sophomoric, the special effects seemed flimsy, holy cow....its not the $30 in tickets I dropped watching it with my wife and daughter but the late night.

Overall, this strikes me much like a bad movie series such as Home Alone 9 or something. Horrible enough no one takes it serious, enough children buy the tickets to make it profitable.

This is like Godfather III, never should have been made; never to be watched again.

boo

[Rich46yo]

Well at least we didnt have to wait to find out who the bad guys father is.

Pretty much a re-hash of all past episodes. Desert planet, cute little robot, always someone having to be saved from the enemy, a weapon able to destroy worlds, the only thing new is a stormie with a conscious. 2 stars at best. I bought an Imax and 2 for X-mas for the wife and I. I pretty much feel like I got robbed.

[Saxman]

It was a joke. Who is this 50 foot Sith Lord junk?

Uhm. It was a HOLOGRAM, or did you completely miss the part where he faded in and out. Good chance he's not nearly that tall. Or did you also think the Emperor was just a big giant head when Empire Strikes Back was released.

I thought all storm troopers were grown in some factory, cloned after Bobafet?

The Original Trilogy Stormtroopers were NEVER clones. By then all the Clone Troopers had died or retired, and were replaced by conscripts.

Some homeless chick suddenly knows the engineering space of the Falcon?

1) The Falcon had been on Jakku for who knows how long, and certainly implied to be years. Rey knew where the guy she scavenged for got her, where the guy HE got her from got her, where the guy HE got her from got her, etc. The only thing she didn't know about the ship was that she's the Millennium Falcon, and was stolen from Han to start that chain. Therefore there's a good probability she's been in and around the Falcon doing odd jobs patching her up (she certainly knew about the modifications her boss/whoever made on Jakku).

2) Given who there's a strong probability her parent(s) might be, it's highly possible she had been on the Falcon before and subconsciously remembered  minor details.

3) The Falcon is a modified YT-series transport. No matter HOW many modifications Han, Lando, and others made to her, she's STILL a YT-series transport, and they're implied to be an old and well-known design. Rey is demonstrably tech savvy, so could very well have scrounged up schematics.

4) And you're ignoring the Force. Rey may have thought it was just instincts or luck, but she was likely using the Force all along, and IT was guiding her.

the quality of screen writing was sophomoric, the special effects seemed flimsy, holy cow

The writing was at LEAST on par with the Original Trilogy.  There were very few CGI creature effects (most were puppetry, as in the Original Trilogy), and the film relied heavily on practical effects that were later enhanced by CGI, rather than pure CGI work. If you want ACTUAL sophomoric writing and flimsy special effects, go watch the Prequels again.

[kilo2]

I didn't think it was bad at all. It was very much like the originals and that's a good thing IMO. I will admit the movie did not take many chances. It showed to me they know what made the originals great and we can expect that same style in the coming movies. I expect them to take bigger chances down the road.

This movie felt like a message to the fans a "we know what made you love this series and we are going to continue in this way" message.

Some people have to realize no movie is ever going to be the original trilogy.

I recommend it. You know they are doing it right when you feel nostalgia.

[kilo2]

So a little background: I'm the biggest Star Wars fan I've ever met. It goes beyond loving the movies, I've read almost every book, every technical diagram, played every game... I know the Star Wars universe inside and out. This is relevant for two reasons: One, I'm invested in this personally, so it means more to me than most. Two, I went in with a bit of a bias, seeing as Disney had already destroyed what I loved most, the Extended Universe (Which WAS, and will ALWAYS be canon in my eyes...)

I tried to keep an open mind, but this is what I thought. From a purely cinematic standpoint, (Ignoring the EU conflicts, and only looking at previous movies)

1) Disney got their hit in early. A Stormtrooper and a random renegade survive a fight, and immediately have a Hannah Montana moment literally jumping up and down saying "You're so great!" "No, YOU'RE great!" "We're such a great team!" WAY to giddy. It wasn't the kind of real emotion we saw particularly in the original trilogy. It was downright Disney.

2) There wasn't much story building. I personally felt as if it was rolling from one fight scene to another without having you really connect with the characters.

3) There was no personal development. EVERYTHING was handed to you upfront. In the first 10 minutes of the male and female meeting, obviously they have feelings for each other and are already making the romantic move. Within the first 10 minutes of seeing the bad guy "He's Han's son". Nothing builds, it's just suddenly there.

4) Everything was TOO easy. This isn't like Death Star easy, where it was a plan to let the Rebels go so they could track them to their base. Every fight scene followed the same script:
    1. A thousand bad guys show up. Everyone freaks out.
    2. 5 good guys show up.
    3. All of the bad guys die or run away from the 5 good guys.
There's no suspense, there's never any real feeling of danger. As soon as a Resistance member shows up, everything is peachy.

5) So... apparently The Force is easier to master all of a sudden. A person who has never seen a Jedi, had only heard wives tales and didn't think they were real, gets told once "It's all true", and then on the VERY FIRST TRY controls the mind of a Stormtrooper, beats the Sith Lord in a lightsaber fight (Well, another random person who's never learned to use a Lightsaber also does this, so clearly the good guys will always win easily, no matter WHO they are, without any semblance of struggle) and then manages to overpower his use of the force, all within the first two thirds of the movie.

6) There's another Death Star. X-wings fly down a trench. They slip through a gap, shoot torpedoes, and the whole thing blows up. It's literally IV and VI all over again, but without any of the buildup. Those planetary shields that were a problem on Naboo, Hoth and Endor? Oh, yeah, we can just hyperspace jump INSIDE them, and not have to take them out at all in the Falcon.

7) So... the Empire is gone. I can swallow this. They call themselves something else. And the Republic is back. But... the Republic doesn't do anything to get rid of the New Empire, so Leia is a Rebel. Again. With a small Rebel group fighting the Empire. Again.

The prequels were bad, but they at least FELT like Star Wars. I went into this with a truly open mind, and I came out horribly disappointed. Not only did it pander to the Disney/quick action crowds, but it didn't even FEEL like the universe I'd grown to love.

About the only thing that I'm happy about is that the new Empire has a new symbol, so that my support for the Star Wars universe that was will not be misconstrued for this new low.

To me it felt like you went into this negative due to it being Disney and due to the fact EU is not canon anymore. EU is really hit or miss, more miss IMO.
A lot of people really love this series. You are not the only one invested.

1. Point one is the only thing I agree with you on. I did not like that scene, the only one in the film I kinda cringed at.
2. You missed Rey scavenging scenes? Rey finding the lightsaber? Or the many other scenes where there is no fighting and character development takes place.
3. 10 minutes into meeting Old Ben Luke is invested in the force. This happens a lot in the original trilogy.
4. Death Star 1 was very easy to destroy. So much so its a common joke, being lampooned by family guy and others. (Still awesome fight scene)
5. Maybe that displays how powerful in the force Rey is. It did seem she picked it up easily, but maybe she was one of the children Luke was training when Kylo Ren turned on them.
6. I do wish it wasn't "mega death star" but that really is a small complaint I have.
7. After any Empire falls there is always a period where factions vie for power.

The prequels never felt like the originals. This movie does.

[Serenity]

To me it felt like you went into this negative due to it being Disney and due to the fact EU is not canon anymore. EU is really hit or miss, more miss IMO.
A lot of people really love this series. You are not the only one invested.

1. Point one is the only thing I agree with you on. I did not like that scene, the only one in the film I kinda cringed at.
2. You missed Rey scavenging scenes? Rey finding the lightsaber? Or the many other scenes where there is no fighting and character development takes place.
3. 10 minutes into meeting Old Ben Luke is invested in the force. This happens a lot in the original trilogy.
4. Death Star 1 was very easy to destroy. So much so its a common joke, being lampooned by family guy and others. (Still awesome fight scene)
5. Maybe that displays how powerful in the force Rey is. It did seem she picked it up easily, but maybe she was one of the children Luke was training when Kylo Ren turned on them.
6. I do wish it wasn't "mega death star" but that really is a small complaint I have.
7. After any Empire falls there is always a period where factions vie for power.

The prequels never felt like the originals. This movie does.

What's your exposure to EU? I'd be hard pressed to say it was much miss... Heir to the Empire? Dark Force Rising? The Last Command? The consesus was these would be the best movies ever made. Outbound Flight? The X-Wing series?

3. While Luke is following it, it still takes him a while to believe in it. "How can I see anything with the blast shield down?!"

5. It takes Luke a movie and a quarter just to move a lightsaber and even then it's a struggle. We don't see it from Anakin until the second movie either.

7. And how likely is it that the NEW Republic would suddenly ignore this new faction to the point that there's ANOTHER Rebellion that Leia is leading? This isn't even HINTED at as being strange or there being backstory.

[Saxman]

To me it felt like you went into this negative due to it being Disney and due to the fact EU is not canon anymore. EU is really hit or miss, more miss IMO.
A lot of people really love this series. You are not the only one invested.

1. Point one is the only thing I agree with you on. I did not like that scene, the only one in the film I kinda cringed at.
2. You missed Rey scavenging scenes? Rey finding the lightsaber? Or the many other scenes where there is no fighting and character development takes place.
3. 10 minutes into meeting Old Ben Luke is invested in the force. This happens a lot in the original trilogy.
4. Death Star 1 was very easy to destroy. So much so its a common joke, being lampooned by family guy and others. (Still awesome fight scene)
5. Maybe that displays how powerful in the force Rey is. It did seem she picked it up easily, but maybe she was one of the children Luke was training when Kylo Ren turned on them.
6. I do wish it wasn't "mega death star" but that really is a small complaint I have.
7. After any Empire falls there is always a period where factions vie for power.

The prequels never felt like the originals. This movie does.

1) Poe struck me as pretty hyperactive in general. He's kind of like Peter Quill crossed with a ferret. I actually found it an interesting contrast from some of the other pilots we've seen, who tend to have that stand-offish cool. Just look at Red Leader, Gold Five, and Wedge (well, Wedge in Empire and Jedi, he was still young and excitable in the original film). They all speak in that very professional monotone. Whereas Dameron is very animated and enthusiastic about flying. That's just who he is, and there really ARE people like that in real life.

3/5) I think it's a combination of natural talent, and POSSIBLE some early training she got before she was abandoned, and just forgot about. As much as I hate using the Prequels a similar thing happened with Anakin; he was able to naturally draw on the Force in Episode I without even realizing he was doing it. Luke did it, too; the Force was the entire reason he was able to hit the exhaust port on the Death Star (Red Leader came close, but his timing was just a hair off). Rey was probably doing much the same thing. And remember, it took her a couple tries to Mind Trick that Stormtrooper. Her only other real (intentional) Force feat was summoning the lightsaber to her hand.

6) It's not like Superweapon of the Week wasn't a bad running joke in the EU already (ESPECIALLY thanks to Kevin J. Anderson). And, well, the Original Trilogy set the precedent that the Empire loves superweapons, so the the First Order decided to go for it, too.

7) This is exactly something the original Expanded Universe ran with. The Empire did NOT disappear with the Emperor's death. It was succeeded by the Imperial Remnant proper, along with dozens of individual warlords grabbing up as much territory for themselves as they could (Zsinj, Terradoc, etc.). We're just seeing the new version of that factionalism.

And I agree, this movie actually FELT like Star Wars.

As I said in another thread, when I started thinking about it, the fact that Episode VII follows much the same formula as the original is NOT a bad thing, because the formula that Star Wars ITSELF followed is so indelibly, inextricably linked to the formula that underlies ALL human myth. Lucas may have sought inspiration from Flash Gordon and Kurosawa, but the single most important source was Joseph Campbell. The formula that the Original Trilogy follows is a very deeply-rooted one, and it's precisely why Star Wars is so culturally resonant.

That's something the Prequels lost sight of.

What's your exposure to EU? I'd be hard pressed to say it was much miss... Heir to the Empire? Dark Force Rising? The Last Command? The consesus was these would be the best movies ever made. Outbound Flight? The X-Wing series?

I read all the main post-Jedi stuff up through the end of New Jedi Order. And believe me, it was a LOT of miss. Everything not written by Zahn, Stackpole, and Allston wasn't fit to wipe your @#$% with as toilet paper.

7. And how likely is it that the NEW Republic would suddenly ignore this new faction to the point that there's ANOTHER Rebellion that Leia is leading? This isn't even HINTED at as being strange or there being backstory.

You uh, actually read the opening crawl, right? Because they AREN'T ignoring it. The Resistance is being armed and supported by the Republic, and Leia was sent BY the Republican Senate to deal with it. It was spelled out in ACTUAL WORDS:

With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Oragana leads a brave RESTISTANCE.

[kilo2]

What's your exposure to EU? I'd be hard pressed to say it was much miss... Heir to the Empire? Dark Force Rising? The Last Command? The consesus was these would be the best movies ever made. Outbound Flight? The X-Wing series?

3. While Luke is following it, it still takes him a while to believe in it. "How can I see anything with the blast shield down?!"

5. It takes Luke a movie and a quarter just to move a lightsaber and even then it's a struggle. We don't see it from Anakin until the second movie either.

7. And how likely is it that the NEW Republic would suddenly ignore this new faction to the point that there's ANOTHER Rebellion that Leia is leading? This isn't even HINTED at as being strange or there being backstory.

I did not get into the Thrawn series. Read Heir to the empire. I loved the Old Republic stuff such as the Revan series. I also like the X-Wing series.

3. and then he uses the force successfully to block the shots from the training droid.
5. see above
7. New Republic is probably a shadow of the former due to the upheaval of an empire collapsing.

Depending on your mindset going into it anything can be viewed in positive or negative light.

[Easyscor]

Serenity,

I didn't have much hope for it after the Disney announcement. I thought it was much like the rep. for EA buying games to take out the competition.

Whether you liked the movie Speed or not, it set a new standard for all action movies with non stop action, and this is made in that formulaic pattern, whether you like that sort of thing or not. Barely a hint of character development, every movie has been Action, Action, Action, ever since. Even some of the Rom Coms. Oh, hehe, and who's Hannah Montana?

Dialog! Dialog is the most important thing. And I would agree with your point number one Serenity, except for one small detail. That scene was a deliberate slap at the lack of comment after a setpoint battle scene in the original series. They always survive, and other than a smirk from Han or a quip from Leia, nothing but (to paraphrase), "on to the next planet!" Lucas loved Saturday morning cliff hangers and that's how he wrote it.

Your point 6 is valid! I hated the whole Death Star repeat in the first series but since you've called out the Death Star repeat, I'm surprised you didn't criticize the new bar scene as another repeat, for the umteenth time. I hate that Disney used a Bigger Bader Death Star as the focal point for the action and agree the smaller battles felt forced but that's what Hollywood does. If ten bad guys won't seem threatening enough, why, we'll make it 20 or 30. Never mind that the hero might be pinned down or out flanked to provide the suspense.

I'm a fan of movies, not just Star Wars, so I appreciate classics like Big Country but I liked this Star Wars episode as well. I felt that Disney paid honor to the best of what's gone before. The dialog will grow on you over time and you'll hate that. Others have said it, Disney has given most fans comfortable reassurance that the franchise is in good hands after all. I hope they're right.

I view this as a transition from the old to the new. I think my favorite character was the bar owner, she Yoda. I hope she comes back in the next episode. Otherwise, there are at least a few empty slots yet to be filled and I look forward to seeing this again several times before the next episode.

[Karnak]

What's your exposure to EU? I'd be hard pressed to say it was much miss... Heir to the Empire? Dark Force Rising? The Last Command?

I've not seen the new movie, nor Episode III.

That said, those books were utter toejam and Timothy Zahn is a complete hack.  Anybody who thinks those would have been good stories is a blind fanboy.

[1ijac]

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