AH3: Steam Edition?

[zack1234]

I am still awesome Nuke :

We miss you a lot.

Well not a lot.

Well not at all

Steam is poo!

[Chalenge]

I am a long time Steam user and I own 178 games, 296 DLC, and my household averages 40 hours per week on some game or other on Steam (I am personally a little too busy at the moment). I love Steam as an outlet for games I might not otherwise see if Steam did not exist. That said . . .

Steam is where games go to die. You might disagree, because you can think of a title or many titles that thrive, but there are many more that do not thrive and instead spiral into nonexistence. Steam is great for Indie developers that need to get the word out. While HTC is an Indie company they are here (by their own words) to provide a service to a close knit community. AH would not grow on Steam.

I thought the same thing (that it might grow), until I came to understand a few things about the various types of games. While a game like Flight Simulator has a user base that is huge, it is not a game like Aces High. Flight Sim is a casual game, more or less. AH is not a casual game. There are other flight combat simulations, but if you look at them they are not structured like AH. They are either extreme (study simulations), or super-relaxed (play school varieties).

There are other games similar to AH, but they are either limited environments (small maps) or limited as to the number of players.

What HTC does is unique, and Aces High should be left alone except for the graphical updates and repair of the strategic gameplay (in my mind even the upcoming mission upgrade and game types are not needed).

Steam is unnecessary.

[pembquist]

yeah, what chalenge said.

I don't "get" most of the flying combat games I have seen. They seem to be games about flying as opposed to games where you fly. I'm not a big video game fan so I am thinking that probably most video game players like games about flying and wouldn't really like a game where you fly so putting ah on a platform that has exposure to game players doesn't seem like it would give that much of a boost.

I would guess that there are quite a number of people who would be interested in trying AH but I don't know that they would be gamers as much as people interested in flying old airplanes. If I was to market AH I would be looking at EAA members, Warbird fans, I'd organize a simple poster hanging campaign at FBO's, I'd try to make it clear that it existed to anyone who ever went to an airshow or paid for a ride in a B-17.

That and have a mailing insert with anything the AARP sends out.

[bustr]

Here is a 2009 Hitech response, I believe he has an even newer one from the last 18 months I'm searching for. Anyone who has been here over 5 years knows Hitech changes his opinions slowly. I suspect Hitech as a game business owner knows more about Steam then most everyone in this post. Unless anyone is willing to step up and admit being a shill or employee for Steam.

--------------------------
Steam would never work from what I am seeing.

Steams purpose is to sell products online with a method of making the distribution secure with out the CD. I.E. I would bet products like EQ still do there own updating.

AH on the other hand is a free distribution unlike the other products. And hence steam would not be interested.

HiTech

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,274094.msg3435992.html#msg3435992

[bustr]

Finally found Hitech's response to Free to Play.

While running many different searches on his responses to marketing, attracting new players, costs, free stuff and what ever else. A reoccurring theme runs through all of it. No one listens to Hitech's answers and every 6-18 months repeats their answer to how he should market or change this game over, and over and over again. Sometimes I wonder how he doesn't get angry being treated like a business moron from the bleachers on a predictable yearly schedule.

---------------------------------------------

While the concept of offering something free to bait the hook is not new in game marketing, the devil is in the details.

Limited plane set arenas at a different price has been tried before. The issue is that it does not integrate the new players into the same world as the paying players. Players form bonds / friends in the free arena and moving to the pay arena is not worth the loss of those friends.

Hence you almost completely cut off your influx of new players into the paying arena.


HiTech

------------------------------------------------------------

And not many liked this answer from a few years back by the constant returning to the theme of FtP to solve all of his marketing and numbers problems. So why return to FtP over and over again unless the benefit is to that OP to play AH in a limited manner to get around $14.95 per month. Altruistic intentions aside that are used to present FtP each time, the real world runs on money. And we see two weekers all the time who fly like 10 year vets.

[Badger85]

To address bustr's points in his first post above (he posted the second post as I had finished this message), a lot of products on Steam now (I don't know how it was in 2009) are free-to-play. For example, WT, which also has a "Premium" subscription option available outside of Steam. That subscription is "introduced" to Steam members with a WT "Steam Package" that includes some months of Premium membership. So I think Steam wouldn't disqualify a free distribution product like AH, at least these days.

By the way, for those that don't know, Valve/Steam is a multi-billion dollar company with an enormous community of young and old individuals interested in all kinds of computer games and simulations; so it's not like some small-fry operation.

...

As to lunatic1's rantings and ravings, I'll just say that this thread is for adults, not children, so please keep the discussion civil and intelligent. I've supported the development of AH with over $400 of my own money (and am willing to give more if I see the game is going in the right direction) so if one of us should be opening up a tall can of hush-up juice, it shouldn't be me.

[Badger85]

As to bustr's second post, you're conflating Free-to-PlaY (FtP) with what Steam is, my friend. For a game to be listed on Steam, it doesn't have to be FtP. In fact, the vast majority of games, from my anecdotal experience, are not listed as FtP there. Steam is just a distribution network and you can market and charge for your game almost however you want (I say "almost" because Steam runs sales/deals; I don't know how they negotiate those with the game developers).

With this thread, I'm not trying to insult HiTech's business acumen. I've already stated my intentions above: to preserve the historical squadrons community for a new generation of historically-minded simmers (they're out there, trust me; I'm one of them at age 30).

I searched for this exact topic before I posted my thread. There has been no forum topic yet that I could find devoted to the discussion of Steam as a distribution platform for AH. Is it not worth at least hashing out the arguments pro/con, then? I understand the frustration with the constant "recommendations" to the developers, but do you see my perspective as a supporter of AH who has given hundreds of dollars to its development and is willing to give more if the game becomes more open to those without an AARP card?

[LilMak]

HT's hypothesis is spot on. I played the the H2H arena for a long time until it was eliminated. It wasn't until it was gone that I finally ponied up the subscription. For me It wasn't that I was too cheap or didn't want to get in the big sandbox. I just remembered AW in my younger days would soak up entire weekends where I wouldn't leave my office and wasn't sure I could control myself. The only thing I can think to do to bring in the new players is to extend the two weeks out further to get players thoroughly hooked. The learning curve is HUGE for true noobs and two weeks isn't long enough to get competent enough for people to get addicted IMO.

AH a lot like golf. Once you hit that perfect shot...you're hooked.

[Badger85]

AH a lot like golf. Once you hit that perfect shot...you're hooked.

Amen! I would agree to that -- golf is a nice analogy to AH.

[bustr]

Badger,

At some point you need to let go of this or directly contact HTC to privately persuade Hitech into changing his business model. To defend your position here, you have gone from an innocent questioning player to an experienced insider. So which are you since like many sales and marketing people, you are not feeling the love with seeing Hitech's answers. Or not getting a personal appearance in your post.

You seem to be beyond seriously vested in flight sims by your youtube page. So how do you keep up the subscriptions for all those other simulators?

[SirNuke]

HT's hypothesis is spot on. I played the the H2H arena for a long time until it was eliminated. It wasn't until it was gone that I finally ponied up the subscription. For me It wasn't that I was too cheap or didn't want to get in the big sandbox. I just remembered AW in my younger days would soak up entire weekends where I wouldn't leave my office and wasn't sure I could control myself. The only thing I can think to do to bring in the new players is to extend the two weeks out further to get players thoroughly hooked. The learning curve is HUGE for true noobs and two weeks isn't long enough to get competent enough for people to get addicted IMO.

AH a lot like golf. Once you hit that perfect shot...you're hooked.

again, steam does not equal F2P

[Badger85]

Okay, bustr, your last post barely made sense. Let me try to address your "points" on their "merits" (or the most coherent version of them that I could attribute to them).

At some point you need to let go of this or directly contact HTC to privately persuade Hitech into changing his business model. To defend your position here, you have gone from an innocent questioning player to an experienced insider.

When have I claimed to be an innocent player? How am I an experienced insider? From the very beginning, I've said what I am: a former AH player of two years who wants to have a serious discussion about a game (rather, community) that I care about but which seems not to cater to players like me anymore. This forum exists to discuss topics like this. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I want to contribute to a greater understanding for all by talking about the pros and cons of the subject. That's generally how good discussions work...

So which are you since like many sales and marketing people, you are not feeling the love with seeing Hitech's answers.

Though I have worked in marketing in the past, that was in the computer hardware and sporting goods industries. Again, I'm not a "shill" or "employee" of Steam, as you perhaps insinuated.

And as for "feeling the love with seeing Hitech's answers:" I addressed those answers on their merits, did not I? I don't think "love" has anything to do with what we're talking about. Unless you mean love for the AH community, which I do have despite our current disagreement. I wouldn't be bringing up this topic if I didn't have this love, and if I didn't want to be persuaded to return to AH under the right circumstances.

And, again, note that the quotes you dug up by HiTech (thank you for doing that, by the way, as I was curious about seeing them) don't quite address the topic at hand (Steam), as I've mentioned in my above posts. So I think my replies to those quotes were fair and constructive.

Or not getting a personal appearance in your post.

I'm not sure what this means. Do you mean I should post a photo of myself as my avatar? You can see my flight sim videos for that, if this really interests you...

You seem to be beyond seriously vested in flight sims by your youtube page.

I'll take this as a compliment, I guess. Are you implying I work in the industry based on the intensity of my interest in flight sims? Well, I don't work in the industry as of writing this: I just like aviation and flight sims that much

So how do you keep up the subscriptions for all those other simulators?

That's the whole point, my friend. I fly a lot of flight sims, both civilian and some combat, and none of them require a monthly subscription (the only other one I used to subscribe to until this summer was PilotEdge, but that's not a simulator pe se and is a whole other ball of wax)! That's why AH, love it as I do, sticks out in a not-so-good way in this regard, in my opinion.

Come on, bustr, I used to fly with Pigs on a Wing (and even with you, I think) in the Dueling Arena. We're all good fellows here. I'm being genuine when I say I want to have an open discussion on the topic without being offensive to anyone.

[mthrockmor]

Business models change, AH doesn't? McDonalds just added all-day breakfast sandwiches, something the franchise owners reportedly hate, but an effort to keep the brand alive. That aside, hundreds of McDonalds will close this year.

As HiTech rolls out AH3 every aspect needs to be considered. The ultimate lifeblood of any business is NEW clientele. Asking the dweebs who have played AH for a decade what they think is somewhat useless. Every failed business will have their 'usual suspects' that show up for dinner the very last day. If AH3 is going to survive it must attract several thousand new sticks this year alone. The funding model for online gaming has changed. HiTech needs to consider what works.

In any case, the same debate goes on and on. We'll see what happens. I am confident the eye candy will be nice; and, that is not enough for AH3 to be successful. Just my broken record, two cents.

boo

[The Fugitive]

Finally found Hitech's response to Free to Play.

While running many different searches on his responses to marketing, attracting new players, costs, free stuff and what ever else. A reoccurring theme runs through all of it. No one listens to Hitech's answers and every 6-18 months repeats their answer to how he should market or change this game over, and over and over again. Sometimes I wonder how he doesn't get angry being treated like a business moron from the bleachers on a predictable yearly schedule.

---------------------------------------------

While the concept of offering something free to bait the hook is not new in game marketing, the devil is in the details.

Limited plane set arenas at a different price has been tried before. The issue is that it does not integrate the new players into the same world as the paying players. Players form bonds / friends in the free arena and moving to the pay arena is not worth the loss of those friends.

Hence you almost completely cut off your influx of new players into the paying arena.


HiTech

------------------------------------------------------------

And not many liked this answer from a few years back by the constant returning to the theme of FtP to solve all of his marketing and numbers problems. So why return to FtP over and over again unless the benefit is to that OP to play AH in a limited manner to get around $14.95 per month. Altruistic intentions aside that are used to present FtP each time, the real world runs on money. And we see two weekers all the time who fly like 10 year vets.

I don't think steam would work. From what I seen and heard the financial side of the system wouldn't work for HTC. Small company, small demographic of players and such.

However, the bolded part of Hitechs quote above is something I think needs to be looked at. If HTC could build a second subscription model into the game so that those "free" players login to the SAME main arena we all do, but on their screens all the planes and vehicles are "redded out" except a few choice midwar selections. A couple fighters (one off a cv, one off land bases), a bomber and a GV. Only once you sign up for a paid subsription do the rest of the planes become available.

This way the arenas get,

1. a bigger population
2. those friendships aren't lost once switching to a paid subscription.
3. those on the "free ride" can see all that they are missing.
4. a longer training period to learn the ins and outs of the game and to become hooked.

[shppr01]

Badger, Hitech would probably not put AH3 on Steam cause he likes to keep the content and play-ability to an even level.When you put a game on an engine like steam , you lose some of the rights to the game . This is a great game and will be even better when 3 is released. We just need to wait until all the bugs and glitches are worked out. If you are having troubles paying for the game, contact them by Email and work something out . I'm sure they can help. By all means, don't just end the game! We have lost more players than we need to due to the fact we won't wait for a huge re do.
Keep the faith!!