Author Topic: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this  (Read 1926 times)

Offline Easyscor

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New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« on: January 17, 2016, 06:25:58 AM »
This is to help you transition from AH2 to AH3 (Beta patch 1)

The current minimum requirement to play AH3 includes a dedicated video card with a minimum of one gigabyte of DDR5 memory. You will NOT be able to play AH3 without such a card, and if your video card isn't less then two or three years old, then you probably won't be able to turn on all the graphic bells and whistles. Check the Video card discussions about bandwidth, shaders and throughput.
Assuming you have anything close to that video card in your machine, here are the things to know that will make the new game engine feel like you're playing the old familiar game.

The first splash screen you see is were you set the Field of View and the size of the textures your system will use. Both affect frame rates and the game chooses some defaults for you.

Open Video Settings at the first splash screen.

Field of View
In AH2, the FoV is 106 degrees but the default FoV in AH3 is 80 degrees. The smaller FoV is said to equal a bit better frame rate and match most other games in the market, however, it's not what we're used to so we can click Set Custom Field of View and change it back to 106 degrees.

Max Texture Size
Leave this at its current setting until you see how the game plays but don't forget about it. You may decide to reduce the texture size to 2048 or 1024. If you think you must go below that, you should consider upgrading your PC.

Font Size
The most important thing this affects is the radio text input buffer and the text size in the list of people on your radio channel.
This will also affect the size of the Loading dialog box when the game loads a terrain and the size of the hints displayed when you pass your mouse cursor over items on the clipboard.


Now for in-game options before tackling head positions and controllers.

Options > Graphic Details

(Before I continue, you should know that I have my three range slider set to Max at the beginning of this discussion. My middle of the road video card is an XFX AMD HD 6850 with 1 GB of DDR5. However, the DxDiag says that it's really a 6739 chip.)


Disable Post Lighting
If Disable Post Lighting is checked, then the game has decided your card isn't fast enough for those effects, no worries.
If Disable Post Lighting is UNchecked, then you have a second page to the clipboard with four additional options. Thanks to Chilli, I can tell you to use outside view, and F8 to look at the Sun. Then try checking and unchecking the four options to see how it affects the Sun.
My personal preference is to leave Disable Post Lighting unchecked and then uncheck all 4 of the options on the second page, but this is beta, and I think most of the effects are turned off at this writing. This increases my frame rate +2. The Hints suggest these affect water but I can see no difference on my frontend at this patch.

The Environmental Slider - All, 2, 1, None

Hitech described it this way:
Number of faces of the environment cube to update per frame. None will only update the cube when you change view types I.E. tower to plane external to internal.

In-game, in the Tower, with the clipboard up on avafinru, my frame rates run 27 at None, 23 at 1 and 18 at All. Your results may vary. I leave it at 1, which is the default chosen by the game with my hardware. To see the difference in the look, set the slider to None, click OK and Alt Tab to the desktop. Then re-enter the game and change the slider. On my frontend, I see a marked difference when moving the slider from None to 1.

Range Sliders
The same situation; avafinru at v21, in the tower with the clipboard up and seeing the normal CBM map, and offline with the four drones overhead.
If I move all three range sliders, Object Detail, Ground Detail Range, and Tree Detail to their minimum limits, then my frame rates are 26 to 27 fps. This is with the graphics options closed and seeing the normal CBM.
When moving these three slider to their maximum limits, the frame rates drop to 22 to 23 fps. That gives you an idea of how powerful these video cards really are.
Twenty three frames per second in the tower, launch a P51D and the frame rate jumps to 27. Clear the trees and the frame rate jumps again to 38 and smooth, 31 to 32 back at treetop level. I don't know how my hardware will do in a furball.

Checkboxes
This is where you can, if you must, pick up substantial frames per second. If I set all the check boxes EXCEPT Disable Post Lighting, by that I mean I'm disabling everything else, then in the tower with the clipboard up and seeing the normal CBM map, I see 42 fps, up from ~23 with everything enabled.

If you still don't have decent frame rates, go back to the original splash screen and change the Max Texture size and reduce the Field of View back to 80 degrees.



MY VIEWS ARE PORKED
Now that you have the best graphics you can get at an acceptable frame rate, it's time to recover your head positions, views and joystick settings that you have become accustom to.

Note: that the path to the AH3 settings folder will undoubtedly change when the new version goes into production.

Head Positions - file extension .hps
The old head positions folder:
C:\Hitech Creations\Aces High\settings\planes
The new head position folder:
C:\Hitech Creations\Aces High Alpha Game\settings\planes
Copy the entire plane folder from the old settings folder and paste it into the new settings folder.


Joystick and Keyboard Map files - file extensions .jsm and .kmp
Find all the old keyboard and joystick files in the settings folder:
C:\Hitech Creations\Aces High\settings
There are the six keyboard files
CHUTE.kmp
global.kmp
GUNNER.kmp
PLANE.kmp
VEHICLE.kmp
view.kmp
Copy and Paste a copy of these into the new game settings folder:
C:\Hitech Creations\Aces High Alpha Game\settings

Find all the .jsm files in the old settings folder for your particular joystick, throttle and rudder pedals. Copy them and paste them into the new game's settings folder.

From C:\Hitech Creations\Aces High\settings
To C:\Hitech Creations\Aces High Alpha Game\settings

Skins are not supported at this writing.

On-Line Arena Tabs
For now there are 4 tabs, Mission, Melee, Events and Player
Entering the old Main style arena isn't one of the choices, for now.

The Mission tab lists a number of arena with missions running.
The Melee tab lists an MA style arena
The Events tab lists the Allied vs Axis (AvA) arena and the Special Events Arena
The Player tab is for Player spawned custom arena



Lastly, at this writing, AH3 is still in Beta. It's not the final product. Read the sticky posts by Hitech, Skuzzy and Waffle.

Easy in-game again.
Since Tour 19 - 2001

Offline TWCAxew

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2016, 07:00:08 AM »
TY! :airplane:
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Offline Vudak

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2016, 09:24:04 AM »
Thank you for putting this together. A lot of this stuff is not intuitive.
Vudak
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Offline Kanth

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2016, 10:09:17 AM »
Super!  :aok
Gone from the game. Please see Spikes or Nefarious for any Ahevents.net admin needs.

Offline Pudgie

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2016, 10:18:37 AM »
Quote
Disable Post Lighting
If Disable Post Lighting is checked, then the game has decided your card isn't fast enough for those effects, no worries.
If Disable Post Lighting is UNchecked, then you have a second page to the clipboard with four additional options. Thanks to Chilli, I can tell you to use outside view, and F8 to look at the Sun. Then try checking and unchecking the four options to see how it affects the Sun.
My personal preference is to leave Disable Post Lighting unchecked and then uncheck all 4 of the options on the second page, but this is beta, and I think most of the effects are turned off at this writing. This increases my frame rate +2. The Hints suggest these affect water but I can see no difference on my frontend at this patch.


I would like to bring 1 item to light here. 1 of the 4 items mentioned here is "Enable Anti Alias". This setting is not a post lighting effect, this setting is actually a form of post processed AA called FXAA (fast approximate anti aliasing) which is applied to a finished GPU rendered graphics frame using the vid card shaders to smooth out the jaggies on edges but because it is a post process application as are the other 3 post processed lighting effects settings this is where it was chosen to locate this setting & if you will note in the Beta Video Settings the AA slider (which was for GPU applied AA) doesn't exist anymore....

If you uncheck the "Enable Anti Alias" checkbox (or when you check the checkbox "Disable Post Lighting Effects") you will disable FXAA in the Beta & the Beta will not be applying any AA at all in-game. Yes, you will pick up some FPS but you will also get the jaggies on your graphics..............

If you are fully aware of this & you choose this then more power to you. Just making sure that you are aware of what is really happening if you do so.

But if you want to turn off the post lighting effects but keep the FXAA enabled in the Beta then leave the checkbox unchecked to "Disable Post Lighting Effects" then in the popup to left uncheck all except the "Enable Anti Alias" checkbox.

Otherwise you will need to set up AA in your vid card drivers to reapply AA in the Beta. Good thing here is that post process AA can still be applied.......in Nvidia drivers you can apply the same FXAA that the Beta uses & in the AMD drivers you can apply Morphological Filtering (AMD vers of post process AA) if desired, or you can set up the GPU applied MSAA-FSAA if desired.

All else mentioned is good.

 :salute
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Offline Easyscor

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2016, 01:27:50 PM »
Thanks Pudgie. My old eyes didn't catch that. The funny thing is, for trees I prefer if off. It makes it look like I have such good eyesight that I can see the individual leaves. I haven't compared while looking at the planes and GVs.
Easy in-game again.
Since Tour 19 - 2001

Offline bustr

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2016, 02:31:46 PM »
Here is a rule of thumb about video cards and how they will relate to the new game. First though, if you have a killer system but only 2G of system ram, a powerful video card will under perform. You will probably need a minimum of 4G system ram(8 is best which needs a 64bit OS) for your video card to perform. Also a power supply starting at about 550 watts.

The four hardware specifications repeated in the list below are what is important to how your card will process the graphics in the new game. DDR3 and GDDR3 ram are very slow. PCI-X 3.0 video cards can be run in PCI-X 2.0 slots like I'm doing with my new GTX 760. Slow ram is slow ram and you see below Nvidia's solution to that with the 9800, was to widen the data path which gets a reasonable low end Gbyte\sec for this game in 512 and lower resolutions.

Easycor's 6850 with a 256bit path, fast ram and 128Gbyte\sec band width as a result is pushing the results from 960 shaders well enough to run 2048 mode like my 6770 ran 1024 mode. You can see the progression in hardware specs. And then my 760 with 2G fast ram, a wide data path, higher band width, can push the results of a higher number of shaders which allows me to play at the defaults in 4096 mode. My trees don't flicker and my shadows act like shadows.

Unless told other wise before the release of AH3, this is the minimum video card.

NVIDIA GTX 9800
GDDR3 - 512M
Data Paths - 256
Band Width - 70.4 Gbyte\sec
SHADERS - 128

Easycor's reference video card:

AMD HD 6850
GDDR5 - 1G
Data Paths - 256bit
Band Width - 128 Gbyte\sec
SHADERS - 960

My video card I tested the alpha with for the last 18 months, my best performance was in 1024 mode. I had to turn of "post lighting" to fight against 60 bombers and escorts with FPS 32 - 60:

AMD HD 6770 SC
GDDR5 - 1G
Data Paths - 128bit
Band Width - 80 Gbyte\sec
SHADERS - 800

My new video card which runs the defaults in 4096 mode depending on the terrain and other factors, 45-60.

NVIDIA GTX 760
GDDR5 - 2G
Data Paths - 256
Band Width 192 Gbyte\sec
SHADERS - 1152
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline 715

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2016, 03:08:07 PM »
Otherwise you will need to set up AA in your vid card drivers to reapply AA in the Beta. Good thing here is that post process AA can still be applied.......in Nvidia drivers you can apply the same FXAA that the Beta uses & in the AMD drivers you can apply Morphological Filtering (AMD vers of post process AA) if desired, or you can set up the GPU applied MSAA-FSAA if desired.

On my system AH's Disable Post Lighting checkbox must be checked for any graphics card driver AA to work, even with the driver set to "Override Application".  I suspect that's what you were saying too, but I wasn't entirely sure.  The attached image shows this: the graphics card AA was set to override yet it had no effect unless Post Lighting was disabled in AH.  (The image also shows why I like to use the graphics card AA and not the AH AA, despite considerable frame rate loss.  In the image AMSAA is adaptive MSAA and SSAA is Super Sampled AA, which drops fps so much on my system as to be unplayable, so I use AMSAA.)

Offline Pudgie

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2016, 06:40:07 PM »
On my system AH's Disable Post Lighting checkbox must be checked for any graphics card driver AA to work, even with the driver set to "Override Application".  I suspect that's what you were saying too, but I wasn't entirely sure.  The attached image shows this: the graphics card AA was set to override yet it had no effect unless Post Lighting was disabled in AH.  (The image also shows why I like to use the graphics card AA and not the AH AA, despite considerable frame rate loss.  In the image AMSAA is adaptive MSAA and SSAA is Super Sampled AA, which drops fps so much on my system as to be unplayable, so I use AMSAA.)

Hi 715,

With the part of my posting that you have quoted I was essentially implying that a user would need to use the vid card's AA settings IF they were to disable the Beta in-game FXAA, either by unchecking the setting "Enable Anti Alias" itself in the left dialog box w\ the Post Lighting Effects checkbox unchecked OR by checking the "Disable Post Lighting Effects" checkbox (which disables all 4 settings under it....including the Beta's FXAA). That also implied that the user doesn't want to use the Beta's in-game FXAA as well as any\all of the post lighting effects......

Now what you have posted concerning trying to override the still active Beta in-game AA setting by using the vid card driver's AA application override function to essentially "disable" the still active Beta in-game AA setting & use the vid card driver's AA settings.........

Sorry but this was not what I was saying.

I do know that AMD vid card drivers will auto default to use the application AA settings regardless of whether the AMD driver's AA application override setting is enabled as long as the application's AA settings are still active. If you're using an AMD vid card then what you've posted makes sense and is a good thing IMHO that AMD has their drivers coded to do this.

I don't know if Nvidia vid card drivers will do the same or not (I've always used the Nvidia vid card driver's AA, AF & TF when I was using a Nvidia card since the Kepler series...600 & up...as the AHII in-game AA settings were not stringent enough--even set to Most--to get the GPU to clock up above the base GPU clocks setting in BIOS using GPU Boost 1.0 or 2.0 which caused stuttering due to underpowered GPU....I even posted about this on this BBS some time back, but I also had the AHII AA slider set to None--turned off--in Video Settings so I can't say if Nvidia drivers will react the same as the AMD drivers will & I had the Nvidia drivers set in default settings which looked for the 3D application's AA settings as a tester in the Beta while it was in Alpha phase as requested by HTC) so someone else will have to answer for Nvidia drivers in this regard.

As a rule of thumb I don't recommend trying to use the vid card drivers override function settings to "disable" the same active in-game settings as this is a good way to cause code collusion & issues......

Much easier IMHO to just disable the in-game setting before enabling the same setting in the vid card drivers and vise-versa.

But your images that you've provided did stir up my interest.............

 :salute
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Offline bustr

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2016, 07:35:39 PM »
Post lighting turned off is still a universe better than AH2 everything turned up full.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline 715

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2016, 08:20:26 PM »
Hi 715,

With the part of my posting that you have quoted I was essentially implying that a user would need to use the vid card's AA settings IF they were to disable the Beta in-game FXAA, either by unchecking the setting "Enable Anti Alias" itself in the left dialog box w\ the Post Lighting Effects checkbox unchecked OR by checking the "Disable Post Lighting Effects" checkbox (which disables all 4 settings under it....including the Beta's FXAA). That also implied that the user doesn't want to use the Beta's in-game FXAA as well as any\all of the post lighting effects......

Now what you have posted concerning trying to override the still active Beta in-game AA setting by using the vid card driver's AA application override function to essentially "disable" the still active Beta in-game AA setting & use the vid card driver's AA settings.........

Sorry but this was not what I was saying.

I do know that AMD vid card drivers will auto default to use the application AA settings regardless of whether the AMD driver's AA application override setting is enabled as long as the application's AA settings are still active. If you're using an AMD vid card then what you've posted makes sense and is a good thing IMHO that AMD has their drivers coded to do this.


Yeah I left out critical information: I'm using an AMD HD7870 card.  I was trying to show that with AMD drivers just clicking disable AA in AH beta while having Disable Post Lighting box still not checked is not enough for the AMD AA to take over.  You have to Disable Post Lighting to get the AMD AA to show up.  Look at the first image (on the left of the image I posted).  It has Post Lighting enabled, AH beta AA disabled and AMD AA enabled, yet the image shows no AA at all.  Only when Post Lighting is disabled does the AMD AA show up (in the two images on the right).

Offline bustr

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2016, 11:27:26 PM »
My GTX 760 in default Nvidia 3D settings is smoothing out the jaggies so well I had to really hunt around my cockpit to see any kind of jagging. If you have cards with lower performance and have to introduce AA or other effects, you may well get visual results but, pay for it in your FPS. Higher end cards AMD or NVidia should make everything smooth in the Beta because of the increased hardware resources.

I OC'd my 6770 and got the band width up from 80Gbyte\sec to 85Gbyte\sec. All that accomplished was to over heat my card. It could not widen the data paths or increase the number of Shaders. And it did nothing to smooth the jaggies. When I did introduce AMD AA control, it ate my FPS and caused an over heat shut down.

GDDR5 ram
Data Path
Band Width
Shaders

The above specs are what really counts for your game play outcomes. 1G GDDR5, 128bit, 80 Gbyte\sec and 800 shaders will just make 1024 mode run acceptably with post processing turned off in an air space with lots of cons. Double all of those and you are in fat city. Or things get a bit better with increased band width and shaders. Or 1G with a 256bit data path and band width 90 up to 128. It's about how much gets through that pipe every second. That is your band width. The more getting through the better your game looks.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Tilt

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2016, 03:14:06 PM »
So I guess I qualify as the AH3 beta newb with lowest end system.

DXDiag in sig.

I'd like FR's at about  30 when in mixed company...so I would like to max eye candy at FR =30

My Nvidia settings are below (in application AH3 uses the global settings)



My Video settings are as below



My in game graphics and general view (showing an FR rate)...

are these........ (this screen shot resolution has not been changed)



So given my miserable system spec will not be changed for another 6 months or so.........would anyone care to comment on what tweaks I might be advised to try.
Ludere Vincere

Offline Chilli

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2016, 03:56:00 PM »
TILT!!!!!

Turn environmental map to NONE!!!!!!  So what if your reflection is of the runway when you are 15k in the air.  Reflections don't help you shoot down bad guys.  Just my 2 cents.   Next, move top sliders to the left.  Tree detail should go first.  I forget which of the other 2 help you to see field guns faster, so whichever object or ground detail that doesn't effect field guns should go next.  To be honest, I have all my sliders set to least detail and works for me.

Thank you for your screenshots, that is a good point for me to make comparison.  If what I am seeing is correct, the system is only recognizing ~500 mb of your 1 GB of video memory  :headscratch:  Or you are getting awesome framerates for a system that is not even supposed to be able to run AH3 and others with better GPUs are faltering.  This is looking pretty promising for a good portion of the AH2 community. :aok

Edited after Tilt's memory explanation:  Okay, so beta can run on less than 1 GB dedicated video memory, I had erroneously assumed that 1 GB was the least allowed !! 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 04:31:53 PM by Chilli »

Offline Tilt

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Re: New to the AH3 Beta from AH2 - Read this
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2016, 04:15:01 PM »
Thanks Chilli will try that.......

re display memory

Display Memory: 1776 MB
Dedicated Memory: 497 MB
Shared Memory: 1279 MB

I guess its just not sharing..........


EDIT
anyway got the desired FR gain...




Your right about the gguns....... I guess the price for top end potential is a bottom end loss...........
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 04:28:36 PM by Tilt »
Ludere Vincere