Author Topic: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D  (Read 51910 times)

Offline hgtonyvi

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2016, 07:50:23 AM »
Was that a i16 dominating?

Offline Arlo

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2016, 09:46:03 AM »
Was that a i16 dominating?

It was possibly the best the Republic had. The Monarchists employed captured I-16s. But then they did that with every captured craft and they had the 109 E. Sources claim both the I-16 and 109 E as revolutionary for the day. But the following hardly paints it as 'dominating' :

"The Polikarpovs immediately began dominating the enemy He 51s and Arado Ar 68 biplanes[citation needed] and remained unchallenged until the introduction of the Messerschmitt Bf 109. The arrival of the newest Bf 109Bs and the overwhelming numerical superiority of Nationalist fighters were the primary cause of the heavy I-15 and I-16 combat losses suffered by throughout 1937.[10] A number of aviation publications called the new Soviet fighter a "Boeing" due to the incorrect assumption that it was based on the Boeing P-26's design. The Nationalists nicknamed the stubby fighter Rata (Rat), while the Republicans affectionately called it Mosca (Fly).

Combat experience showed that the I-16 had deficiencies; several aircraft were lost after structural failure of the wings which was quickly remedied by reinforced structures. Heavy machine gun bullets could sometimes penetrate the armored backrest and fuel tanks occasionally caught fire in spite of being protected. The hot Spanish summers required the addition of oil radiators, and dust adversely affected the life of the engines. Although some aircraft accumulated up to 400 hours of flying time, the average life of an I-16 was 87 days, of which one sixth was spent on maintenance. The biggest complaint in service was the light armament of only two 7.62 mm (0.30 in) machine guns. This was urgently addressed with the Type 6 which added a third ShKAS in the bottom of the fuselage. The four-gun Type 10 was nicknamed "Super Mosca" or simply "Super". The total number of I-16s delivered to Spain from 1936 to 1938 amounted to 276. When the war ended on 1 April 1939, 187 Ratas had been lost in Spain: 112 lost in combat, one shot down by anti-aircraft fire, eleven destroyed on the ground, one force-landed and 62 lost in accidents.[11]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polikarpov_I-16

Different online sources may, of course, say different things about it (this is a 'Captain Obvious' moment) :

"The 1-16 Rata (nickname meaning "rat") was the world's first single-winged fighter plane with retractable landing gear. It was not a particularly fast or nimble craft, but after its debut, the bi-winged linen-skinned fighter became a thing of the past. In 1927, Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin demanded a technically superior fighter for the Red Air Force. Designers Nikolai Polikarpov and Dmitri Grigorovich were ordered to create one "under state supervision," while in prison. The resulting I-16 was small, light, and could withstand tremendous amounts of damage while still remaining airworthy. After pilots ran out of ammunition, many rammed their enemies in mid-air."

http://www.flyingheritage.com/TemplatePlane.aspx?contentId=23

"The first low-wing monoplane fighter with retractable landing gear to enter service, the Polikarpov I-16 was obsolete even before the Second World War began, yet plodded along as the Soviet Union's first line fighter until 1943 when the Red Air Force finally introduced top-notch aircraft to slug it out with the Luftwaffe for the remainder of the war.

Of advanced design for its time, the I-16 was, none-the-less, an illustration of poor timing, being the fastest of its type when first introduced, highly maneuverable, with excellent climbing speed and roll rate, yet soon outclassed by a newer craft developed by Germany and Japan. While the aircraft performed well against German combat aircraft during the Spanish Civil War (1936 to 1939), and against the Japanese Air Force in Manchuria starting in 1937, by the time Germany invaded the Soviet Union in 1941, the aircraft was outclassed by new generations of enemy fighters. Yet, as the most numerous of the Soviet fighters available at that time, it bore the brunt of the battle for several years.

On the plus side, its simple, rugged construction, all-wood monocoque fuselage and metal wings made the I-16 easy to maintain under frontline conditions, and enabled it to absorb heavy punishment while staying in the fight. In fact, the plane itself was sturdy enough to be used as a ram to destroy enemy aircraft in midair when ammunition ran out in a dogfight.

On the negative side, it had poor longitudinal stability, a tendency to stall in a glide, and was exceedingly temperamental, requiring highly skilled airmanship to perform well and not kill the pilot before the enemy had a shot at him.

Although more than 7,000 of the fighters and their two-seat trainer variants were produced, not more than a handful have survived, with 3 non-flying craft being in museums (two in Russia, one in China). However, at least 6 wrecked I-16's had been restored to flying condition in New Zealand by the end of 1998, all of them Type 24s dating from 1939. At least one was imported to the USA in 1999."

http://www.warbirdalley.com/rata.htm


Offline save

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2016, 04:57:10 AM »
I will use any excuse to get the Tante Ju52 in the game  :D
My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2016, 05:42:20 AM »
He112's would be great fun
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2016, 06:35:57 AM »
I will use any excuse to get the Tante Ju52 in the game  :D

It sucked in Warbirds.   It will suck here. 

I would rather have a C-54.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2016, 10:02:01 PM »


All of which may well have sucked if modeled in Warbirds per Vraciu's opinion so obviously they'd suck here. ;)













Um .... Nationalist? Captured equipment was almost always pressed into service.







The 'crappy' JU-52 was used as a bomber with great success.






Offline Zacherof

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2016, 05:37:12 PM »
Just want to point out that the 1930's produced some beatiful aircraft
In game name Xacherof
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2016, 07:59:58 PM »
Just want to point out that the 1930's produced some beatiful aircraft

 :aok

As an aside, although not an SCW thing, there were some very interesting experiments in the 30s:












Offline Arlo

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2016, 05:02:46 PM »









Offline Arlo

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2016, 03:55:52 PM »

Offline Arlo

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2016, 04:03:23 PM »

Offline Arlo

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2016, 09:05:48 PM »


Frank Tinker

 In 1926, he joined the US Navy hoping to become a naval aviator. In 1933, he graduated from the US Naval Academy. In 1934, he was assigned to US Navy aviation and became a pilot of a reconnaissance floatplane of the USS San Francisco cruiser. Because of problems with alcohol and brawls, he was dismissed from the Navy.

Later in 1935, Tinker joined the crew of a Standard Oil tanker running from New York to Baton Rouge, Louisiana, as a third mate. By July 1936, he left his job with Standard Oil, and looked for a job as a pilot.

After the start of the Spanish Civil War, Tinker offered his service to a Republican side, reportedly because of his aversion to fascist regime of Benito Mussolini, who was helping the Spanish Nationalists. He negotiated a high salary of $1,500 monthly, and a premium of $1,000 for any aircraft he shot down. Under nom de guerre Francisco Gómez Trejo, he went to Spain via France.

For a short time, from January 6, 1937, Tinker served in a light bomber squadron, flying obsolete Breguet 19 bombers. From January 23, he, along with some other American pilots, was assigned to a fighter unit, 1st Escuadrilla de Chatos commanded by Andrés García La Calle, flying Soviet Polikarpov I-15 "Chato" biplanes. In 1937, he flew many combat missions against the Fascist Falange air forces, generally duelling Germans and Italians. The squadron first entered action on February 10, and took part in a Battle of Guadalajara. On March 14, Tinker shot down his first aircraft, an Italian Fiat CR.32 fighter, followed by another CR.32 on March 20. On April 17, he shot down a German Heinkel He 51 fighter from Legion Condor over Teruel.

On May 3, 1937, Tinker was assigned to 1st Escuadrilla de Moscas, commanded by the Russian, Ivan Lakyeyev, flying the faster Polikarpov I-16 "Mosca" monoplane fighters. On June 2 and June 16, he shot down another CR.32. On July 13, he became the first pilot to shoot down one of the most modern German fighters, a Messerschmitt Bf 109A, near Madrid. It was piloted by Unteroffizier (Sergeant) Guido Honess of 2./J 88, flying a Bf 109A believed to be marked 6-4. Honess, who was killed in the ensuing crash, was the first German pilot to achieve three victories with this new type of aircraft. On July 17, Tinker shot down another Bf 109A. This first version of the Bf 109 was not a "good climber" and Tinker caught it from behind while the German pilot tried to gain altitude after a dive on him – a lethal mistake according to Tinker. The scene is described in detail in his book Some Still Live. His final victory was over a Fiat CR.32 on July 18, 1937. Tinker flew his last missions on July 29, 1937, then returned to the U.S.

While in Spain, Tinker socialized with Ernest Hemingway, Robert Hale Merriman, the leader of the American Volunteers of the Lincoln Brigade and his successor Milton Wolff, who led the 15th International Brigade during the Battle of the Ebro.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Glasgow_Tinker







Frank Tinker is on the far left.

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2016, 10:09:00 PM »
great stuff Arlo.  :aok
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2016, 10:13:17 PM »
 :salute :) :cheers:

Offline Arlo

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Re: Hey .... how about a Spanish Civil War arena/plane set? :D
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2016, 04:00:26 PM »
In the interest of fairness, I present te Condor Legion's leading ace - Werner Mölders. (Leading aces who were true Spanish citizens will come later.)



Werner Mölders

In 1936, the Germans sent a Luftwaffe force, the Condor Legion, to assist the Nationalists in the Spanish Civil War. Mölders volunteered for service, and arrived by sea in Cadiz on 14 April 1938. He was assigned to the 3rd squadron of Jagdgruppe 88 (J 88) commanded by Oberleutnant Adolf Galland. The unit, stationed at the Valencia–Ebro front, was equipped with the Heinkel He 51, but later switched to the Messerschmitt Bf 109 B-2.[Note 1] Mölders assumed command of the squadron on 24 May 1938, when Galland returned to Germany.[9] He claimed his first aerial victory, shooting down a Polikarpov I-15 "Chato" ("Curtiss" to the Germans) near Algar, on 15 July 1938.[10] Over the remaining months of the year, Mölders became the leading ace of the Condor Legion, shooting down 15 aircraft in Spain: two I-15 "Curtiss", 12 I-16 "Rata" and one Tupolev SB (one "Rata" claimed on 23 September 1938 was not confirmed).[11]

The flight paths of four aircraft traveling in an asymmetrical V formation: the leading aircraft at the tip of the V-shape is aircraft 1, followed by aircraft 2 on its left, and aircraft 3 and 4 on its right. For the entire formation to execute a 90-degree right-hand turn, aircraft 2 is the first aircraft to make the turn, rising and passing over the flight paths of aircraft 1, 3 and 4. The flight path of aircraft 1 is next to curve right, passing over the flight paths of aircraft 3 and 4. Then the flight path of aircraft 3 curves right at a 90° angle, passing over the path of aircraft 4, which is the last to turn right. Once all four aircraft have completed the turn, aircraft 2 is to the right of aircraft 1, which has aircraft 3 on its left, followed by aircraft 4 on the far left of the formation.
Schwarm formation and cross-over turn[12]

In recognition of his exceptional performance as a commander and fighter pilot, Mölders was promoted to Hauptmann (captain) on 18 October 1938, effective as of 1 October 1938. He claimed his 14th and final confirmed aerial victory of the conflict by downing a Polikarpov I-16 "Rata" near Mola on 3 November 1938[13] and returned to Germany on 5 December 1938.[14] From 6 December 1938 until March 1939, Mölders was a member of the 1st group of Jagdgeschwader 133 (JG 133) and held a staff position with the Inspector of Fighters at the Reichsluftfahrtministerium (Imperial Air Ministry) in Berlin. His task was to devise new fighter pilot tactics. In March 1939 he was given command as Staffelkapitän of 1./JG 133, taking over command from Oberleutnant Hubertus von Bonin. JG 133 was later renamed Jagdgeschwader 53 Pik As (Ace of Spades).[15][16][Note 2]

For his achievements in Spain, Mölders was honoured with the Spanish Medalla de la Campaña and Medalla Militar on 4 May 1939 and the German Spanish Cross in Gold with Swords and Diamonds (Spanienkreuz in Gold mit Schwertern und Brillanten) on 6 June 1939.[17] The Condor Legion officially returned to Germany on 6 June 1939 and troops marched through Berlin to the Lustgarten, where the fallen were honoured. A formal state banquet for the most highly decorated soldiers was held in the marble gallery of the Reich Chancellery. Mölders was seated at table 1, with General der Flieger Hugo Sperrle, General Don Antonio Aranda, General Gonzalo Queipo de Llano, Oberst Walter Warlimont, Oberstleutnant von Donat, Leutnant Reinhard Seiler and Oberfeldwebel Ignatz Prestele.[18]

With other airmen in Spain, Mölders developed the formation known as the "finger-four".[19] This improved the all-round field of vision and combat flexibility of a flight (Schwarm), enhanced mutual protection, and encouraged pilot initiative. In the "finger-four", the aircraft assumed positions corresponding to the fingertips of an outstretched hand. The fighters flew in two elements (Rotten) of two aircraft each; two Rotten (four aircraft) made up a Schwarm (swarm).[19]

Mölders is often credited with inventing the cross-over turn.[19] An early version of the manoeuvre, as used by a "Vic" of five aircraft (a tight formation forming the letter "V"), appeared in the Royal Air Force (RAF) Training Manual of 1922, and the manoeuvre may even date back to 1918. However, it had fallen into disuse due to the difficulty of performing it in a multi-aircraft formation with the contemporary spacing of less than 100 feet (30 m) between aircraft. The wide lateral separation of 1,800 feet (550 m) introduced by J 88 both necessitated such a turning manoeuvre, to enable a Schwarm to turn as a unit, and minimised the risk of midair collisions previously associated with it.[19]

In World War II, he lost two wingmen in the Battle of France and the Battle of Britain, but shot down 53 enemy aircraft. With his tally standing at 68 victories, Mölders and his unit, the Jagdgeschwader 51 (JG 51), were transferred to the Eastern Front in June 1941 for the opening of Operation Barbarossa. By the end of 22 June 1941, the first day of Barbarossa, he had added another four victories to his tally and a week later, Mölders surpassed Manfred von Richthofen's 1918 record of 80 victories. By mid-July, he had 100 World War II victories.

Prevented from flying further combat missions for propaganda reasons, at the age of 28 Mölders was promoted to Oberst, and appointed Inspector General of Fighters. He was inspecting the Luftwaffe units in the Crimea when he was ordered to Berlin to attend the state funeral of Ernst Udet, the World War I flying ace. On the flight to Berlin, the Heinkel He 111 in which he was traveling as a passenger encountered a heavy thunderstorm during which one of the aircraft's engines failed. While attempting to land, the Heinkel crashed at Breslau, killing Mölders and two others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_M%C3%B6lders