Author Topic: Dogfight : F35 vs F16  (Read 83211 times)

Offline save

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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2016, 06:02:03 PM »
Thanks save!

good read....

TC
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2016, 06:14:01 PM »
I figured more replys would have been posted regarding the article...

the most interesting thing, that I thought about, was the new "rewriting of BFM" for the F35...... and how much of it will change from what is currently taught, and has been taught for many decades......

that is very interesting to wait to find out how they change or add/modify it, BFM instruction, for this aircraft, etc...

TC
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2016, 06:25:03 PM »
You can put lipstick and high heels on a pig and make it look pretty but at the end of the date it's still a pig.

They can keep adding in new stuff to the software of the Lightning II and give it amazing performance but at the end of the day the plane is still a pig.  According to the last Pentagon report, there has yet been bug fixes to the software to correct existing problems with the software and instead new features and capabilities have been added, compounding the issues with the software.  The F-35A can't use the AIM-120 missile on it's own, it needs a 3rd party to lock on the target for the F-35A, because the software has issues with locking on with the AIM-120.

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Offline DaveBB

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2016, 06:54:20 PM »
Software issues are fixable.  Aerodynamic issues are another matter...
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2016, 06:55:56 PM »
I figured more replys would have been posted regarding the article...

the most interesting thing, that I thought about, was the new "rewriting of BFM" for the F35...... and how much of it will change from what is currently taught, and has been taught for many decades......

that is very interesting to wait to find out how they change or add/modify it, BFM instruction, for this aircraft, etc...

TC
I read it...Is he saying that in an F16 he used more lag pursuit than lead? that's what I got from it
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2016, 08:32:51 AM »
I met "Dolby" and another RNoAF pilot a couple of years ago at a seminar where they presented the Norwegian part of the F-35 program. I think I even posted about it here somewhere, but the typical naysayers like Ack-Ack did their usual routine accusing "Dolby" of being a stooge of either Lockheed Martin or the government, or just afraid of losing his job. And of course spreading Pierre Sprey's ridiculous diatribe.

I have little doubt these individuals will continue to decry the F-35 even when in the near future it will be dominating every piece of sky it flies in. They can't help it as they have invested so much of their egos in the debate.

Here's "Dolby's" article from last year that is mentioned in the OP's link. It's in Norwegian, but google translate does an intelligible job:

https://translate.google.no/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnettsteder.regjeringen.no%2Fkampfly%2F2015%2F04%2F20%2Fmoderne-luftkamp-the-right-stuff-top-gun-eller-noe-helt-annet%2F&edit-text=
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2016, 08:51:03 AM »
Here he is last year:

"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2016, 03:13:36 PM »
I met "Dolby" and another RNoAF pilot a couple of years ago at a seminar where they presented the Norwegian part of the F-35 program. I think I even posted about it here somewhere, but the typical naysayers like Ack-Ack did their usual routine accusing "Dolby" of being a stooge of either Lockheed Martin or the government, or just afraid of losing his job. And of course spreading Pierre Sprey's ridiculous diatribe.


Don't lie, I never accused anyone of being a shill for Lockheed or the government.  In fact, I used to be in favor of the F-35 until I started to read our own Pentagon's report about the  program and from reading those reports it is clear the plane isn't ready for prime time and has become a money pit.
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Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2016, 03:49:09 PM »
I didn't mean you specifically, but naysayers like you.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline GScholz

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2016, 03:53:57 PM »
Ack-Ack you're calling the plane a pig. That is a claim that has no foundation in fact. You may lament the government or pentagon or Lockheed Martin for the delays and cost overruns, but that has nothing to do with the performance of the final product. The Bradley IFV was another financial screw up, but I don't see anyone claiming the Bradley is a bad IFV.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 04:01:41 PM by GScholz »
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline Zimme83

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2016, 04:36:23 PM »
Question is: Is it really relevant to compare w the F-16? I want to know how it perform against more modern fighters like Eurofighter, Rafale and even Su-35.
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Offline Serenity

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2016, 06:24:23 PM »
Ack-Ack you're calling the plane a pig. That is a claim that has no foundation in fact. You may lament the government or pentagon or Lockheed Martin for the delays and cost overruns, but that has nothing to do with the performance of the final product. The Bradley IFV was another financial screw up, but I don't see anyone claiming the Bradley is a bad IFV.

No one I know in the know has anything positive to say about the aircraft in its present state...

Offline Gman

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2016, 10:13:51 PM »
The Aim120 missiles range safety systems don't work in the F35 because there is SO much vibration in there, that the missiles fail safe out and don't work.  The bays also get too hot - if any ord is carried, for them not to be damaged right now, under 25,000 feet the bomb bay doors must be opened to cool off the ord every...TEN MINUTES.  WTF?!?

Then to top things off, the radar right now has a mean time between failure rate of...four hours.  So, basically every flight the radar fails and goes tits up.  Oh, but Lockheed/Martin said the good news is sometimes if you reset it it'll start working again, but usually only when the fighter is on the ground...

I'm sure there are good and bad things about the ones actually flying in service, I HAVE read things like what the Norwegian pilot has written, but I've read just as many if not more bad.  In fact, I've NEVER heard of orders being given from on high that pilots MUST speak well of a new plane, and that any open negatives or criticisms will be met with punishment.  Remember when the F22 was at the stage the F35 is now, being deployed and combat coded to active squadrons?  EVERY SINGLE pilot that flew it raved about it, and even with the naggling little issues that still cropped up, EVERYONE knew it was the best in the world, a real killer, with superlative performance in nearly every metric.  Where is that similar praise and environment with the F35?  Despite any defensive things that can be said, THAT just isn't there, and it should be, with such an expensive and incredibly LONG development process.  Hell, it's been longer than the F22 took to get online, and the F35 still wouldn't be able to go into combat now.  No way it could, any of the 3 models.

Despite any possible future potential that the F35 may work out, it's a: taking too long, and b: costing WAY too much for the performance and capability that MIGHT be there if it all works out.  IMO it should be cut, skip this Gen 5 and go straight to the new Northrup designed Gen 6 fighter, and build more advanced variants of current proven platforms until that Gen 6 fighter is ready.  A few dozen squadrons of F15 SE, advanced Super Hornets, the F16 block 60s that some Arab countries have bought if need be- focus on those new IRST pods for the AF and Navy, and getting that new Aim120 online.  If war comes with China in the South Pac, the above things will pay off FAR more than the F35 will, which has been slaughtered in every wargame that every company and defense department have run in that theater of ops. 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 10:19:39 PM by Gman »

Offline mthrockmor

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Re: Dogfight : F35 vs F16
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2016, 10:32:58 PM »
I've played American politics for two decades now. The F-35 is a political b****, period. It flies, drops bombs, shoots missiles, guns, etc and evades radar, yada, yada yada

To read that is over cost projections and way behind schedule with a future of more money and time before its ready...that is how Washington rolls. From health care to education to roads to VA, etc...they always cost more and take longer. Do you think that is by accident?

The F-35 is just another political monster. It may in the end live up to its billing, though only after hundreds of billions are spent on it. The political class are very well taken care of. I'm pretty good with military lingo though I'll defer to many on this board to those points, I'm not even a real pilot. On the political front, which is my backyard....political monster par excellance.

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