Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"

[Brooke]

Many people have said that Martin Caidin made up the name "Fork-Tailed Devil" in his book "Fork-Tailed Devil:  the P-38" and invented the story of it being originated by German pilots.  Their reason usually is either that they personally have read no accounts from German pilots mentioning the phrase "Gabelschwanz Teufel" or that they've heard other people say it isn't true.

Yet it turns out, from Life Magazine, August 16, 1943, p. 51, in the article "P-38":
https://books.google.com/books?id=RVAEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA51&dq=gabelschwanz%20teufel&pg=PA51#v=onepage&q=gabelschwanz%20teufel&f=false

"Into that camp the military police brought a disheveled German flier who was mumbling hysterically and repeating something about 'der Gabelschwanz Teufel'.  An interpreter was called, and he had the translation quickly:  'the fork-tailed devil'.  The German was talking about the P-38."

So, there you have it.

Caidin's use of "fork-tailed devil" is completely solid.

[Oldman731]

So, there you have it.

Aren't you just a bit skeptical about the honesty of that article...?

I don't think Caiden invented the name "fork tailed devil,"  that was probably beyond him.  The Life magazine article - whoever wrote it - may well have been the origin.  Same thing happened with planes like the Corsair ("whistling death") and the Beaufighter ("whispering death")...you're reliant on accounts written by the Allies.

But thanks for that link, what great advertisements!  Shows how times have changed.

- oldman

[Squire]

I think most origins like that are lost in time. They are impossible to verify and ultimately...I think its an interesting historical anecdote...and you can have fun with it but I really don't think it matters all that much.

Enjoy the nicknames and a "wink and a nod" as to how they came to pass...

I heard some German trooper being strafed in North Africa coined it. Then again...who knows?

[Zimme83]

I also have a bit hard to Believe that the Germans came up with the name. P-38 was not so superior to the German fighters that it would earn such reputation among German pilots that they would use a name like that. Fork tailed devil suggest that they thought that it was a intimidating foe but for IMO the combat records rather suggest that the germans thought that the P-38 was an inferior plane(initially at least).

[Brooke]

Aren't you just a bit skeptical about the honesty of that article...?

Yes, but only a little because it could also be true.

Either way, it shows that the term "fork-tailed devil" was in use for the P-38 shortly after its introduction into combat, and it shows that Caidin was completely appropriate in relating the name and the story of how it came about.

[Delirium]

I have to question the reliability of the source, as we will never really know the real origins of the label.

[Brooke]

There are only three possibilities:

1.  The 1943 article is telling the truth.

2.  The author of the article was told this story in 1943, but the story of the German pilot is false.

3.  The author of the article made it up in 1943

In all three cases, the name "fork-tailed devil" for the P-38 was in use (regardless of who originated the phrase) shortly after the plane's introduction into combat, and Caidin correctly related this information published in 1943 -- he didn't make it up for his P-38 book.

[Brooke]

By the way, you guys use this same level of scrutiny on every WWII story you've ever read, right -- since most information given in personal accounts of WWII does not give 2nd-source backup?

[Devil 505]

Don't forget that even if the German pilot had said it, that it is entirely likely to have been taken out of context. He could have called it that only in reference to it's appearance and little to do with it's performance.

In my opinion, I highly doubt that any German ever called the P-38 "Fork-tailed Devil" in the manner that we're used to being told that they did. Either we made it up, or it was said in jest.

[Brooke]

Don't forget that even if the German pilot had said it, that it is entirely likely to have been taken out of context. He could have called it that only in reference to it's appearance and little to do with it's performance.

The story doesn't say anything about performance.   All it says is this and nothing else regarding the phrase "Gabelschwanz Teufel":

"Into that camp the military police brought a disheveled German flier who was mumbling hysterically and repeating something about 'der Gabelschwanz Teufel'.  An interpreter was called, and he had the translation quickly:  'the fork-tailed devil'.  The German was talking about the P-38."

Folks can disbelieve it if they want, but there is no context that can be messed up or misinterpreted for this simple statement.

[Brooke]

Out of curiosity, if the story had been that the German pilot said, "Yeah, I got shot down by one of those double-tailed b*stards", would you disbelieve it unless there were 2nd sources or German biographies that call the P-38 "the Double-Tailed B*stard"?

Also, what would it take to believe the story?

If the story had said in it "I talked to Sgt. Bob Smith, who was in charge of holding a prisoner at Camp 32 near Tunisia.  According to Sgt. Smith, at 4:32 pm on August 2nd, 1943, a German pilot approached the camp and surrendered.  During interrogation  . . .", and then related the same story, would you believe it then?

What if it said that and "I also checked with Camp 32's Intelligence Officer, Lt. Brad Jones, and he corroborated what Sgt. Smith said" would you believe it then?

Or would you only believe it if another author said "To check out the story related in Life's Aug. 16, 1943 issue, I also went and talked to Sgt. Smith and Lt. Jones, and they told me the same thing"?

Or would that be insufficient still because you didn't read a book by a German that said "We commonly called the P-38 'der gabelschwanz teufel'"?

What if Germans didn't commonly call it that (the Life article doesn't say that the Germans commonly called it that -- they say one guy came in who called it that)?  Would you need personal accounts from that guy or his squadron mates in order to believe it?

If you need that level of proof, do you distrust the majority of first-hand accounts such as Samurai, by Sakai, The First and the Last, by Galland, Fighter Pilot, by Olds, With the Old Breed, by Sledge, and so on?  (Note here that I am saying "majority" and not "all" since these books have some portions, which are small compared to the entire books, that are readily verified, just as there are many sections in Caidin's P-38 book that are readily verified.)

[Zimme83]

Even if the story is true its still a German, not the Germans that called it the fork tailed devil. It does not support claims that the name was widespread among the Germans. As I said: its no reason for the Germans to give such a name to a plane they viewed as inferior to their own. A single pilot, downed by a P-38, might have said it in affect but its not quite the same thing as saying that it was a common name among the Germans.

[Devil 505]

It's not about proof, Brooke. It's about perception vs. reality - or in this case what I consider likely reality.

There is how the phrase was used by U.S. propaganda and its implication of original use. I do not see a German using "Forked-tailed Devil" in the same manner as it became known to us. The plane's record vs the Luftwaffe in 1943 was not impressive enough to garner that kind of moniker by German Pilots. Regardless of if this German pilot or any other actually uttered that phrase, once it was published in Life it became a piece of the narrative about the P-38 indicating a level of intimidation by German pilots on facing that plane based on its performance. 

[RJH57]

from Life Magazine, August 16, 1943, p. 51, in the article "P-38":
 a disheveled German flier who was mumbling hysterically and repeating something about 'der Gabelschwanz Teufel'.
"Into that camp the military police brought a disheveled German flier who was mumbling hysterically and repeating something about 'der Gabelschwanz Teufel'.  An interpreter was called, and he had the translation quickly:  'the fork-tailed devil'.  The German was talking about the P-38."

you gotta be kidding with this obvious piece of bullsh*t war-time propaganda (e.g. "disheveled German flier who was mumbling hysterically" - Oh please, spare us  ). I repeat: I have yet to find any GERMAN (!!) Luftwaffe accounts - memoirs & biographies, unit histories, air battles & campaigns  - ever using the term "Gabel-schwanz teuffel" as a reference to the P-38. So you may be correct in that Martin Caidin did not invent the term "Fork-Tailed Devil" - LIFE Magazine may have done so, along with "disheveled German fliers mumbling hysterically". I'm surprised that Caidin in his book "Thunderbolt" didn't claim that the Luftwaffe called the P-47 the "Grosse Schwanz Teuffel" (Big-tailed devil) 

[FLOOB]

Remember in a lot of languages calling somebody a devil is derogatory, like calling someone a dirtbag.