Author Topic: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"  (Read 25857 times)

Offline Arlo

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #45 on: April 06, 2016, 02:16:18 PM »
They never chuck the rice bowls and team up to find the truth. The accuser always says prove it while flinging rice.

Something all my professors will no doubt resort to doing as I claw my way up to their pedestal. ;)

One man's 'truth' is another man's 'myth.' Just the facts*, ma'am (and I'll build my conclusion from that).  :cool:

*Facts will include verified quotes which we may or may not know are lies. Lots of lies. A dedicated researcher dedicates himself to research.  :old:

Offline GScholz

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #46 on: April 06, 2016, 02:22:10 PM »
So you also don't accept 95% of the content in 1st-hand accounts of combat in all those books you read, because the majority of personal accounts we read are not corroborated by a second source.

I read everything with a healthy measure of skepticism. Even more so when the subject matter is pilots' stories or fishing tales. Someone who was a kid at the time and has had decades to be influenced by popular media... I don't have much faith in that at all.

That said, you seem to be arguing point no. 4 now rather than no. 1...
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2016, 02:25:53 PM »
That said, you seem to be arguing point no. 4 now rather than no. 1...

1, 2, and 3 are facts.

4 is irrelevant to 1, 2, and 3.

Offline Zimme83

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2016, 02:29:55 PM »
Still disagree.
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Offline Squire

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2016, 02:30:09 PM »
I see it as more of an argument about common usage. Terms like "Jug", "Me 109", "Zero" ect...were they called that or was it just some one-off that got repeated a few times and maybe inserted post event by a writer. Many of them are VERY common...and some others it would seem although there might be evidence of usage seem rather uncommon and hard to find despite being there great stories behind the handle. Also most of the nicknames we come across for planes are given by those who flew them and not their enemies...but there are exceptions.
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2016, 02:33:40 PM »
I have real hard to believe that the Germans printed Aircraft identification cards were the name Fork tailed Devil were used.
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2016, 02:34:34 PM »

Offline bustr

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2016, 02:53:47 PM »
Something all my professors will no doubt resort to doing as I claw my way up to their pedestal. ;)

One man's 'truth' is another man's 'myth.' Just the facts*, ma'am (and I'll build my conclusion from that).  :cool:

*Facts will include verified quotes which we may or may not know are lies. Lots of lies. A dedicated researcher dedicates himself to research.  :old:

Like that fad in the 80's everyone who was anyone indulged in. Hypnosis induced past lives regression. Funny how no one discovered they shoveled cow crap for a living while suffering from TB. Always some famous persona, or person of royal linage, or of means for the era. At no cost do you allow anyone to touch your pedestal and notice it's not real gold leaf, just gold spray paint hiding the worm holes, rot, and bailing wire. A full rice bowel is more dear than the truth until your final breath.
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Offline Squire

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2016, 03:39:01 PM »
Quote
Funny how no one discovered they shoveled cow crap for a living while suffering from TB

Screw you I was Cleopatra...i'm sorry if that upsets you.  :P
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #54 on: April 06, 2016, 04:23:56 PM »
Like that fad in the 80's everyone who was anyone indulged in. Hypnosis induced past lives regression. Funny how no one discovered they shoveled cow crap for a living while suffering from TB. Always some famous persona, or person of royal linage, or of means for the era. At no cost do you allow anyone to touch your pedestal and notice it's not real gold leaf, just gold spray paint hiding the worm holes, rot, and bailing wire. A full rice bowel is more dear than the truth until your final breath.

I discovered I was a piss boy. But it was a solid gold bucket.  :grin:

Offline Brooke

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2016, 04:34:18 PM »
OK, you . . . I now think that I should get two beers.

This one *is* from a German pilot whose information is given in the book "A Higher Call".  From the writer of "A Higher Call":  "What you’ll read in the following pages is built around four years of interviews with Charlie and Franz and four years of research, on and off."  Franz Stigler was a 109 pilot, and here is what he relates:

"THREE DAYS LATER, APRIL 16, 1943

Spiraling upward in their 109s through scattered clouds above the airfield, Franz and Willi saw smoke rising on the other side of Olympus. The gray plumes bellowed from the port of Palermo on the island’s north coast. The Four Motors had bombed the docks and power station there, sinking two ships. Franz, Willi, and twenty-one of their comrades had scrambled too late. The skies were otherwise empty. It was 4: 30 P.M., and the Four Motors had just spoiled the dinner dates Franz had lined up for him and Willi in Trapani. From Olympus, the controllers radioed the flight to alert them that P-38 fighters had been sighted above the Gulf of Palermo. Franz had never seen a P-38, but he had heard the name the boys in Africa gave the new American fighter—“ the Fork-Tailed Devil.”

. . .

Franz liked the idea of pursuing “the herd,” as the bombers were called, instead of “the Fork-Tailed Devils.” The call was Willi’s— he was leading the flights because their squadron commander, Sinner, had been banged up several weeks earlier after a crash landing on the airfield. Despite the fact that Willi was younger than him, Franz respected Willi’s rank and courage.

Not a minute had gone by before someone radioed, “Fighters! Eleven o’clock low!” Franz leaned forward against his straps and peered ahead of his left wing. He saw green silhouettes just two thousand feet below him. At sixteen thousand feet they motored in the opposite direction, toward Africa. Franz’s eyes went wide. Each fighter had two engines, one attached to each large wing. The engines’ booms extended back like fork blades connecting to a small tail. They were P-38s, ten of them, the Fork-Tailed Devils of the 82nd Fighter Group. The Americans called their planes “Lightnings.”

Eager to redeem himself from his botched run on the bombers, Willi radioed Franz to say he was attacking. Willi knew no bounds when it came to pushing his luck, so Franz agreed to cover him. Willi dismissed his flight, as did Franz. It was like the desert again, two experts against many. . . .

. . .

When Franz and Willi landed at Trapani, they hurried to fill out their victory claims in the operations shack. Willi claimed two P-38s and Franz one. Willi was cheerful because they had chased away an entire flight of Fork-Tailed Devils, but Franz felt a sense of regret. He had seen his enemy in the raft. He mentally put himself in that man’s shoes, floating alone as the sea grew choppy and storm clouds rolled in, without water or food. “That’s war,” Franz told himself as he lit a cigarette, another new habit. With each drag of smoke, he put the American pilot farther out of his mind. He scrawled his signature on the paperwork so he and Willi could go celebrate in Trapani, where black-haired “bella donnas” and bottles of sweet Marsala wine were calling."


Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2016, 04:37:24 PM »
I have real hard to believe that the Germans printed Aircraft identification cards were the name Fork tailed Devil were used.

From what I've seen of German aircraft identification manuals, they just printed the model name of the aircraft, no nicknames.



I'm skeptical about the story myself, as I've heard "der Gabelschwanz Teufel" was coined by a Life Magazine journalist (shortly after a visit to N. Africa) embellishing a story for the readers to boost morale and then later used by Lockheed for public relations for the P-38.
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Offline Arlo

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2016, 04:40:33 PM »
I'm skeptical about the story myself, as I've heard "der Gabelschwanz Teufel" was coined by a Life Magazine journalist (shortly after a visit to N. Africa) embellishing a story for the readers to boost morale and then later used by Lockheed for public relations for the P-38.

Hell, could even be that Franz Stigler's friends had Life magazine subs.  :O

Offline bustr

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2016, 04:51:07 PM »
Life Magazine helped create the "Flying Tigers" legend at a time America needed to hear some good news about fighting against the Japanese.

The German pilots could have started using forked tail devil after Life Magazine coined it (made it up) because it appealed to their sense of humor about made up stories concerning them. It is likely they had access to some serial publications from our side.
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline DaveBB

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Re: Definitive proof of origin of "Fork-Tailed Devil"
« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2016, 05:06:11 PM »
I thought a bunch of P-38s and B-25s shot down a whole squadron of helpless JU-52s over the Med.  I could see a shocked JU-52 crewman calling a P-38 a "fork tailed devil".
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