Author Topic: ssd vs hdd  (Read 1324 times)

Offline bortas1

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ssd vs hdd
« on: May 02, 2016, 03:13:41 PM »
 :salute I have read  about ssd and hdd.  I have read pros and cons on both sides. not really sure what to think about them. or the application of  ssd for sure'

any enlightenment would help greatly.  :salute :cheers:
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 03:16:35 PM by bortas1 »

Offline Vulcan

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2016, 04:06:22 PM »
I've been using SSD for my main drive on my gaming PC for many years now. No issues. All my primary PC's have SSD. It makes a huge difference in loading stuff.

Offline save

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2016, 04:15:50 PM »
SSD is what you need.
There are some tweaking you should do if you go the SSD path.


I backup my system to an external usb3.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2016, 04:57:55 PM »
There are a few things you need to know about SSD. First, they are sensitive to electro-statics. That does not mean that they are so sensitive that they are doomed to failure. What it does mean is that a failing PSU 'could' cause them to fail. The signs of a failing PSU are still the same, audio anomalies, followed by data loss, followed by hardware failures, followed by catastrophic system damage (not always all of them but sometimes all at once). Even a HDD will experience data loss as a PSU begins to fail, however it can mean a total failure of an SSD. By total I mean no recovery is possible, at all. So, if you are aware of the quality of your PSU, then you are in a better position to judge the likelihood of a system loss, or not.

SSDs are fast, but only the first time a program loads, which also concerns map loads in some games. Aces High is not one of those games. It could be a really bad idea to run AH2, or AH3 off of an SSD (this from Skuzzy I believe). For the same price of an adequately sized SSD you can buy a really, really nice HDD with much greater capacity.

Having said that I will admit that I use an SSD for my boot drive. I use Seasonic PSUs, so I think I can get away with it for a few years (up to ten) without worry. I install all of my programs to HDDs. I relocate Windows libraries like My Documents, Music, Pictures, Videos, etc. to a Libraries HDD (I use the new Helium drives from HGST). I have the larger Steam games on a second SSD of much larger capacity. I install AH2, and AH3 to their own separate HDDs. Each HDD backs up to its own private destination once each week (different days).

Using Macrium Reflect I can restore any drive in an hour, or the OS in thirty minutes.

It may not be affordable for everyone, but this is optimum for me.

EDIT (2nd paragraph): Meant to say only the first time a program load does it have a real advantage over a HDD.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 07:57:48 PM by Chalenge »
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Offline Bizman

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2016, 01:38:55 AM »
--- It could be a really bad idea to run AH2, or AH3 off of an SSD (this from Skuzzy I believe). ---

This is about the best explanation about the issue I've seen:

It is nothing we can fix. It is an inherent issue with how SSD's cannot update files.  Once data is written it cannot be directly altered.  It is a very clumsy thing the SSD's go through, when a file needs to be updated.

They actually have to make a copy of the original file into a RAM disk (yes, they take a chunk of your system RAM away for that), then when the file is updated, they copy the file to a temp name on the SSD, then remove the original file, then rename the temp file.  During this convoluted process, the file is locked which means no further updates can be done until it is complete.

So for each block of data changed in a file it has to go through this dance.  For any given file, a patch can do this hundreds of times.  There are firmware issues with some SSD's which cause the errors to happen.  There is also a timeout issue which can cause problems when patching large files.  None of this is in our control.

Well, actually, we can fix it and do what most other games do.  Not patch at all, just ship the entire file that needs to be updated.  It would make patches huge.  Matter of fact, in many patch cases, it would be the complete game.  So instead of a 100K patch, it would be 1.9GB.

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Offline Gman

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2016, 12:49:10 PM »
I decided to run AH2/3 on an SSD after years of taking HTCs advice on the large numbers of small read/writes possibly being a risk.  The reason I decided to risk it is I'm using a cheap old 830 Samsung 128gb SSD - if it does fail, the only thing I'll  lose is AH, and I have all my settings/films/etc backed up of course.  This IMO is the best option if you choose to run Aces High on an SSD - there are plenty of very cheap SSDs out there, I found this one for 25$ used.  Otherwise, if you have important data shared on the same drive you run AH on and it's an SSD, it's best to take Skuzzy's advice, again IMO, just in case.  Chalenge's points are all valid as well IMO.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2016, 02:38:44 AM »
I wanted to see how long my samsung 830 ssd would last.  bought it almost 2 yeas ago.  it's sitting outside of my case on the carpet.  it gets kicked almost every time i play.  I have nothing that cant be replaced on it.  and it hasnt failed me yet.  no bad sectors no nothing.

I hate to say it but ripley was right, this damn things will last forever.  did i say i play ah on it and wot too?.  i have to hd that serves as my backups but dont have them connected.


semp
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2016, 05:51:47 AM »
We have players who are having problems with their SSD's now.  Just because you are not having them yet, does not mean it will not happen.

Aside from that, there really is no benefit from running AH on an SSD, other than the first time load of the executable.  So why risk it?

You may never have a problem with it, but that does not mean everyone else will not have one.  As I said, we are having a few players who are having issues now, with their SSD's.

I am not, nor never have, said SSD's are a bad thing.  My task here is to advise players of the potential for shortening the life of their SSD.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2016, 08:35:53 AM »
Oh? I thought you had said that repeated writes of small files would eventually cause a problem of some sort? Still, the bad thing I was talking about concerns updating files, because the whole ram disk idea is not good, in my view, should there be a system interruption. That would constitute a bad thing in my mind.
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2016, 08:48:51 AM »
The massive small writes could eventually kill/knock out 1 or more memory chips in the SSD

and I can confirm the timeout issue that Skuzzy posted about. I had to fix it with a firmware update, but I didn't suffer any loss of the game installed ( I got lucky )

Semp, you are seriously pushing your luck with that SSD laying on the carpet

Hope this helps

TC
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2016, 09:33:37 AM »
Oh? I thought you had said that repeated writes of small files would eventually cause a problem of some sort? Still, the bad thing I was talking about concerns updating files, because the whole ram disk idea is not good, in my view, should there be a system interruption. That would constitute a bad thing in my mind.

Every word of that is quite true.  Repeated writes of small files are the bane of the SSD.  When errors start happening it is normally due to the excessive amount of those writes. 

And yes, I do not care for the RAM disk either.
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2016, 09:34:23 AM »
I use my SSD for a boot drive only and don't have to use driver cleaner software either.   I must be doing something right.
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Offline bortas1

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2016, 03:20:24 PM »
 :salute well I will get an hdd to start with and go from there. thank you all.
 :salute :cheers:

Offline guncrasher

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2016, 12:35:08 AM »
I have the samsung 840 evo 250gb.

like I mentioned before, I wanted to prove ripley wrong 2 years ago.  so I really abused the hell out of my ssd, by leaving it in the carpet right next to my feet and it gets kicked and moved around every time I use the computer.  it has written 8.4 tb of data.

it doesnt mean that my ssd will last another 2 years.  it could fail tomorrow for all I know.  I dont have any data on it that it's not backed up.  gonna keep doing it, see how long it lasts.  not really a true test but it's more like a mission for me  :rofl


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline bortas1

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Re: ssd vs hdd
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2016, 12:38:39 PM »
I have the samsung 840 evo 250gb.

like I mentioned before, I wanted to prove ripley wrong 2 years ago.  so I really abused the hell out of my ssd, by leaving it in the carpet right next to my feet and it gets kicked and moved around every time I use the computer.  it has written 8.4 tb of data.

it doesnt mean that my ssd will last another 2 years.  it could fail tomorrow for all I know.  I dont have any data on it that it's not backed up.  gonna keep doing it, see how long it lasts.  not really a true test but it's more like a mission for me  :rofl


semp
:salute  :rofl :cheers: