Author Topic: the lengths some people go...  (Read 18850 times)

Offline BuckShot

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #120 on: May 25, 2016, 11:49:31 AM »
I just got the 50 kills in a P-39 achievment. It was a long core, but fun.

I had some 51s run from me! It seems like a 51 with flaps out could easily out turn a 39.
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Offline FLS

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #121 on: May 25, 2016, 12:12:49 PM »
These complaints are all about dueling in the MA. Duels in the MA are fun but you are complaining that someone who didn't agree to duel you won't duel you. You are asking for the MA game to be easier. Whether for score or for fun, you want less difficulty catching the bandit.

Here's how you do that. You make yourself an attractive target. Instead of changing everyone else you change yourself.

If you'd rather have an even fight just find one other person that wants to fight and duel them.

Offline Tumor

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #122 on: May 25, 2016, 12:31:59 PM »

Your an all or nothing type of guy aren't you.

Not at all, I was being sarcastic.

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You cant conceive of players that like to fight <----- PLEASE NOTE fighting could mean attacking a buff formation, chasing away the attack on a buff formation, attacking other planes trying to dive bomb GVs, attacking the planes trying to shoot down those trying to attack the dive bombers.

Instead you get lawn darts, runners who do nothing but drop dar and flee, or let their buffs die, or buffs that fly so high it takes hours to get up there to take a shot. Fighters who hide NOE and bail when spotted, or if they make it to the target are using the planes only as fast bomb trucks.

It's a Wargame, and it's their money.  And HiTech rewards suicidal game play.  Nothing we can do.

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Years ago it was all about the fight.

Not exclusively, not now, not then, not before then in AW.  There have always been options to do things besides dogfight fighters.

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We had players like wldthng and others who would take on all comers, and more often than not take them all out. There wasn't this "FPH" crap, you knew who the top guys were because they fought well. Youasked for help and they were happy to chat about fights as they flew out to the furball. They would meet you and have a fight off to the side of the furball and more often than not others would let the fight play out. There was FRIENDLY trash talk across channel 1, and it was channel 1 because nobody abused it and so didn't offend other players. Now we need channel 200 to tune across countries so you KNOWINGLY put yourself in the position of the garbage we get to see today.

What planet were you playing AH on?  Yes, were those you describe.  However, there have always been people with offensive, ridiculous attitudes.

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Once the land grab got started back in the day we FOUGHT for bases. Missions had buffs, cap, heavy fighters and goons. The defenders would up to defend and try to shoot down the attackers. Often it turned into a furball half way between the attacking and defending bases. The LTARS would defend with OSTYs. Rarely did you drop fighter hangers or bomber hangers. If the LTARs were there the VH had to go down  :devil

The LTARs were fun to kill and easy to shut down.  It didn't happen a lot because thinking ahead and planning is directly contrary to the pointy-clicky-bang-bang approach.

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Then it started to change. Fighting for the base got too hard for some and so they ran NOEs. Defending got too hard for others and they would up LA7s and do nothing but scream along the ground hunting goons, only shooting at another plane if it happened to cross its nose. NOEs got so bad that HTC dropped the dar to the deck and increased the circle by almost double. You were on dar almost as soon as you went wheels up. HTC relented a few weeks later and we have the dar setup we have today. M3s came along and seeing as they are harder to find and for many who have a problem with bouncing off the ground harder to kill, they replaced the Goon as the troops carry of choice and so the LA7 use dropped off.

The LA7 is most folks idea of Get'rdone.  NOE's still happen... and there's a decent balance regarding dar.

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Sure we had the HOers, vulchers, pickers, runners and so on but it was a much smaller percentage of the players doing that. Back then it was the norm to fight, now it is the norm to run and hide.

Vulcher's and Pickers have been around since long before AH, it's a moot point.  Well... IMO, the HO is HiTech's personal pride and joy about AH, it ain't gonna change and the lamest of the lame will proudly continue to use it.  And don't EVEN try to convince me it wasn't a problem from very early on... I was there.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 12:35:19 PM by Tumor »
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Offline Wiley

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #123 on: May 25, 2016, 01:01:41 PM »
These complaints are all about dueling in the MA. Duels in the MA are fun but you are complaining that someone who didn't agree to duel you won't duel you. You are asking for the MA game to be easier. Whether for score or for fun, you want less difficulty catching the bandit.

Here's how you do that. You make yourself an attractive target. Instead of changing everyone else you change yourself.

If you'd rather have an even fight just find one other person that wants to fight and duel them.

The thing I really like about the MA is if there are enough opponents available, you can to a large degree create your own circumstance.

I altmonkey like a mofo for a couple reasons.  For one thing, I don't like bombers being out of my reach, and I'm one of the relatively few with the patience to climb to them and hunt them.  The ability to climb for a long time shouldn't give red guys a free pass into my airspace.

Secondly, in the absence of high alt buffs to hunt, I like to prioritize the guys that are BnZing the friendlies below me.  The ability to climb for a long time shouldn't give you a free pass to hunt and bully my low slow friendlies.

In the absence of high enemies, then I turn to whatever's below me.  If he's covered up, I leave him be.  If he starts to run from the friendlies, I quite often turn him/kill him.

I very rarely run into a situation where someone can escape me without help.  I do that by flying aircraft that it is difficult to run from, and putting myself in a position where they are going to find it difficult to do so.

The tendency I've seen the last little while in the MA though, I've found fairly confusing.  Two guys that really stuck out to me that I can remember in the last month or so did things that just made no sense to me.

One guy went over me cruising.  I figured he hadn't seen me and started trying to sneak him from below.  I was climbing very aggressively below him, and was about 1.5k directly below him doing about 150mph when I saw him roll for a belly check most likely because he heard my engine.

If he had chosen to do so, I was in an outstanding position for him to attack me.  Low speed, in a climb, just about the right amount of distance between us for him to flip over, drop in and smack me.  About the only way I could have been in a more disadvantageous position is if I was about 200 yards dead ahead of him and asleep.

Instead of attacking, he actually dove past me and headed for his ack.

The second one merged with me with about a 3k alt advantage, didn't get any kind of advantage on the first merge, and immediately dove out for his ack.

Both times, we were the only planes within a sector of us for either side.  I just don't get why one wouldn't try to kill the other guy regardless of skill level.

Actual "dueling" in the MA rarely happens unless it's over quickly, per my sig.

In some aspects, I do agree with Tumor.  You can find HO/Pick/Vulch whines from the very start of the game.  It's not recent.  I wouldn't say HT rewards suicidal gameplay exactly.  I would say that he doesn't prevent it, likely because there's no real way to do that without some kind of really gamey change to the gameplay that would make it less realistic than it is.

What I've noticed though lately is for whatever reason, lower numbers seem to bring out a higher proportion of people who are looking to either hit buildings unopposed in some way or attack planes from on high seemingly preferably if the opponent is afk.

I think the easy solution is for numbers to get up.  People are going to play the way they play, but with enough people in the arena there's generally enough around that play in the way their opponents want them to play.  That allows them to interact with each other and find fun.

Wiley.
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Offline caldera

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #124 on: May 25, 2016, 01:50:24 PM »
I just got the 50 kills in a P-39 achievment. It was a long core, but fun.

I had some 51s run from me! It seems like a 51 with flaps out could easily out turn a 39.

Awesome!  Welcome to a rather exclusive club.   :cheers:


These complaints are all about dueling in the MA. Duels in the MA are fun but you are complaining that someone who didn't agree to duel you won't duel you. You are asking for the MA game to be easier. Whether for score or for fun, you want less difficulty catching the bandit.

Here's how you do that. You make yourself an attractive target. Instead of changing everyone else you change yourself.

If you'd rather have an even fight just find one other person that wants to fight and duel them.

That's exactly what I did and have been doing for years.   The C.202 has a very minor climb rate advantage over a P-51 on the deck but other than that, the Mustang does everything better.   

It's only one example but I constantly have to dodge FQ shots from guys in faster and better turning planes, only for them to charge at me like a bull and extend.   Most of the planes I'm in can easily be extended away from if they get in trouble, but they don't even try to turn. 
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Offline FLS

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #125 on: May 25, 2016, 01:58:48 PM »
I would point out that if they don't turn you aren't attractive enough. Nothing personal.   :D

Btw both the C202 and P-39 have a substantial sustained turn rate advantage over the P-51.

« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 02:20:34 PM by FLS »

Offline Wiley

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #126 on: May 25, 2016, 02:02:38 PM »
I would point out that if they don't turn you aren't attractive enough. Nothing personal.   :D

The thing is, you're still conducting yourself in such a way that it depends on their behavior.  Same as the people whose concept of fun hinges on their ability to merge with an enemy and cross his gunsight on the merge without him firing.  Don't give him the opportunity, you won't get HOed.

If you conduct yourself in a way that you have control over the enemy, it doesn't matter what they do.

Wiley.
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Offline FLS

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #127 on: May 25, 2016, 02:31:25 PM »
The thing is, you're still conducting yourself in such a way that it depends on their behavior. ...

Hopefully that describes every game played with other people.   :D

If you conduct yourself in a way that you have control over the enemy, it doesn't matter what they do.

That's what the people exiting the fight are doing.   Extending away from what are usually better-turning aircraft  that regain energy faster.

Offline Wiley

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #128 on: May 25, 2016, 02:35:38 PM »
Hopefully that describes every game played with other people.   :D

That's what the people exiting the fight are doing.   Extending away from what are usually better-turning aircraft  that regain energy faster.

Yup.  And it's up to the other guy to either live with his decision to fly a slower, turnier plane and watch the runner escape or be fast enough to catch him.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

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Offline JimmyC

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #129 on: May 25, 2016, 04:18:02 PM »
This is pretty much my perspective also. With defensive flying you get double the kills and have more fun doing it. Most people don't realize that if you get 4-5 kills per sortie and die half the time, you will still have a higher K/D than most of the players who stay high and get 2 kills per hour who run at lost advantage. By becoming more aggressive, you have the chance to get more kills, learn the game better, and it's more fun for everyone.

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Offline Shuffler

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #130 on: May 25, 2016, 05:09:35 PM »
I spent most of yesterday evening in AH III at a disadvantage and landed 4 kills almost every time I upped. I don't mind being the low alt guy. More fun. When I get tired though I start hating looking up all the time.

It is much more fun when the fights are close and low. Don't have to waste time climbing.... live or die, it is fun.

If you see my 38J upping, just come pay me a visit. :D
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Offline GScholz

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #131 on: May 25, 2016, 05:45:53 PM »
The single most damning thing about this game is not player behavior. It's the fact that there's AI ack and flak. Ack-dragging wouldn't be a problem if there was no ack. To knock some rust off before the big campaign I've spent some time in the MA flying the 109G-6. I've been shot down four times. Only one of those deaths were to another human player. In one case I was fighting a Yak-3 at 22-23K and some carrier fleet towered me with its magic puffy clouds. How fun. I'm not sure I want to give these people my money. In fact I'm pretty sure I don't.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #132 on: May 25, 2016, 06:56:41 PM »
These complaints are all about dueling in the MA. Duels in the MA are fun but you are complaining that someone who didn't agree to duel you won't duel you. You are asking for the MA game to be easier. Whether for score or for fun, you want less difficulty catching the bandit.

Here's how you do that. You make yourself an attractive target. Instead of changing everyone else you change yourself.

If you'd rather have an even fight just find one other person that wants to fight and duel them.

No its not about dueling, dueling is a whole different style of play and they have a special arena just for it. No, its about fighting. Fighting in fighters against fighters, or against buffs, or against GVs. The point is to fight.

Not bail from 30k when Zoney shows up in his 190.
Not tower out on concrete in your GV because you hear a bomb.
Not tower out while trying to run troops in an M3 and a Nik is diving on you.
Not make one pass from 20k on a 7K guy and run to ack because you missed.
Not dive in on Radar, or Ammo bunkers and ack until the ack finishes you off.
Not have 20 guys run NOE to take a Vehicle base ( and then disappear when they fail to grab it anyway).

If you like BnZ, fine. Lose your advantage climb out and reset, but come back and fight when you do regain your advantages.

Making an epic buff run, fine don't bail it at the first sign of trouble, fight.

Running an M3 with troops, fine. Those things turn pretty good and with timing you can get any number of guys to auger trying to hit you.

Same with GVs, don't sit still.... ever hear of a sitting duck? Move your butt! No need to tower when on the move you can take any number of planes down while they get frustrated missing with their bombs.

YES, for all you nay sayers you can find a good fight now and then, but they are far too few. It was more like 70% fights and 30% crap. Now we are on 70% crap and 30% fights. I hope with AH3 that the numbers go up and STAY up. I hope the fighting comes back. Only time will tell.

Offline Oldman731

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #133 on: May 25, 2016, 08:52:50 PM »
Ack-dragging wouldn't be a problem if there was no ack.


Clearly you have not encountered the vulchers.  Vulchers wouldn't be a problem if the ack was significantly intensified.

There's a balance, somewhere.  The AvA people have fussed with it for years.

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Offline Changeup

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Re: the lengths some people go...
« Reply #134 on: May 25, 2016, 09:04:49 PM »
If you added up the time people spent climbing to the highest alts and the one burst passes, zoom climb with no kill, rinse repeat and then spent that time actually fighting at most other alts, how good would you be at fighting?

Thats one way to spend 15.00 bucks...pay to not get any better lol.  It's not "pay to play" it's pay to refine ones complete lack of skill"

Like Dales sig says, "Some people find the need to explain away their suckage.  "My money, my way" is just another explanation.
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