CH v TM Warthog HOTAS

[FESS67]

A quick post on the merits of the Warthog.

<disclaimer> now do not get me wrong, the CH Products stuff is great and very robust.  Had only 2 sets in 15 years.

Situation:  my Warthog throttle lost its config (firmware or MD fried - still investigating).

Solution:  Plug in the CH Products throttle.

Result:  It works.  BUT....OMG... it is like driving a golf cart after you are used to driving a high end sports car.  Sure it does its job but it is raw, sloppy, lacks finesse, feels cheap......etc

If you ever think about making the change and wonder if it is worth it....YES YES YES it is.

ps.  I may be in the market for a new set if I cannot fix this warthog...suggestions? 

[Gman]

Only real option is to buy a new Warthog Throttle by itself (these are for sale, at least I've seen them for sale in the past), or not.  There really isn't any other single throttle option other than the CH, although TM does make a cheaper CH like throttle now, they have no plans to replace the Warthog setup for another 4 years minimum according to their recent press event.  VKB has new sticks coming (Gunfighter), but no throttle, at least none they've announced. 

You obviously haven't had any "sticktion" issues with your WH stick if you aren't complaining about it too - don't worry, you will, it's only a matter of time, I've had 2 WH sticks that have fallen victim to it, and I barely used them compared to my CH sticks (combat and fighter, 3rd of both, had 1 gameport and 2 USB versions of each so far since the 90s).  While tearing the WH apart and re greasing/screwing around can fix it, for a time, it always returns. Their gimbal is garbage.  Hopefully the VKB Gunfighter will be out soon, as the WH/Cougar sticks can use that gimbal/base too, along with the included WW2 stick.

But, so far as throttles go, you're down to just a few options.  Have fun dealing with the warranty dept at TM, they are swell (sarcasm meter pegged), IF you're still under warranty.

[Krupinski]

I took the main spring out of my Warthog, and messed w/ the 4 smaller ones so it retains a centered position. I gotta say the precision is pretty incredible, zero sticktion too.

I was pretty rough on my CH stick, it lasted for awhile and still works today, but the Pots really lose center and want to do their own thing after awhile. Not with the Warthog, you can pretty much throw it around however you want and the magnetic sensors stay where they should.

[Gman]

I've done the same with one of mine, spring wise, and replaced the Oring with one of the manufactured hard teflon ones from the guy that sells them on ED/DCS forums.  The Hall sensors have their own different sorts of issues from POTS, they aren't invulnerable to failure by any means, just search online for Warthog issues in that regard and you'll get the phone book.  It's just less frequent than POTS, however I will say the post CH sell off manufactured CH products last a LONG time, I have a Fighterstick that is over 10 years old and used every day and is still working like new.  I have had several Warthogs, 1 is new, and the other 2 have had major sticktion issues.  One I've done the spring removal, re grease with a grease NOT recommended by TM, as that sucks, and replaced the oring.  It works alright now, but nothing like a new one does/did/.  Their workmanship on the internals is terrible, and again, the gimbal is garbage IMO. 

Did you mess with anything other than the springs with your stick?  If not, you will, eventually.  It just takes time, it's random and unpredictable, I had one that after maybe 200 hours of use needed a complete overhaul, the other was my first, and lasted 5 years before getting sticktion badly.  No issues with the sensors on any of the 3 sticks I have, and 2 throttles. 

VKB has impressed me, look at Blade's post here comparing his various sticks from VKB (jealous) to his Warthog/etc.  I think a Warthog stick, with that new Gunfighter base/gimbal = best of both worlds, and what I'll be after when my "good" Warthog goes down.  The VKB pedals I have are getting stomped on every day, and so far so good - not as pretty as the Slaw or MFGs, but work as well and are simpler and more fine motorskill dependent movement wise.  We'll see I guess how the Gunfighter turns out, but I do wish TM would get off their butts and make an advanced/better WH system.  CH too, if they made a Hall sensor CH hotas system...I'd buy it, for certain. 

[morfiend]

 Fess, my warthog throttle messed up!   The magnets fell off and seems to have cut some wires. I got a ch throttle to replace it and I'm less than happy with it!

  Unfortunately this happened before the X55 was available or I would have bought an X55 for the same coin as the CH throttle.  And would have had a backup JS and a much better throttle setup than the ch.


  I'm thinking about getting an X55 but have been waiting to see if VKB will offer a separate throttle but for the money the X55 or even that spacey X56 might make a reasonable choice for a replacement to the warthog throttle.

  I havent opened it up to see if it could be fixed as I dont like working with electrical devices,I cant see electricity and it bites!



   

[Ack-Ack]

  VKB has new sticks coming (Gunfighter), but no throttle, at least none they've announced. 

VKB has in the pipeline the Gunfighter Pro Plus that comes with a dual throttle. 

[Krupinski]

DO NOT GET AN X55. It's absolutely horrible, buttons will stop working and eventually the whole thing. This goes for both the stick and throttle.

[FESS67]

TM Support have sent me a response with how to check wires etc.  I will pull it apart tonight after my game of golf, unless I play like a noob in which case it may be better to have a few beers, calm down and look at taking stuff apart tomorrow 

[DmonSlyr]

The CH stick ive been using for the past couple of months has been okay. I will say that it's irritating that they would design the 8 view hat switch at the top right of the joystick. It would make so much more sense to put it at the lower left position. Planes fly pretty smooth for the most part. It is bigger than it looks though. It's not a small controller. The throttle is great. The peddles lasted for over 7 years. I'd give the stick a 7/10 because of the location of the 8 way hat switch, the size, and it's buffer when the stick is in the middle, I sometimes get a DMYCSR when I'm in an intense fight and I sporadically wiggle the stick.

[SIK1]

I love the configuration and feel of the Warthog. I am less than happy with the over all quality, and their customer support leaves a lot to be desired. I think for the price of the Warthog the build quality and customer support should be much better than it is. I'm looking to purchase a VKB Gunfighter when they become available to replace my Warthog stick. I hope to keep the throttle and repair it and/or modify it to keep it in service.

I have an old CH set-up (pedals, throttle, and stick) that was purchased before CH was "acquired" by the multi-national conglomeration. It is what I keep as my back-up, and the whole set-up is rock solid anytime I have had to connect them. That being said I have heard from many people about issues with the build quality, and customer support of CH now that they are part of the multi-national conglomeration.   

Ack-Ack I think you are confusing the Gladiator Plus Pro with the Gunfighter joystick. Unless you have some info I haven't stumbled across yet. http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?t=1947

 
Sik

[Krupinski]

I love the configuration and feel of the Warthog. I am less than happy with the over all quality, and their customer support leaves a lot to be desired. I think for the price of the Warthog the build quality and customer support should be much better than it is. I'm looking to purchase a VKB Gunfighter when they become available to replace my Warthog stick. I hope to keep the throttle and repair it and/or modify it to keep it in service.

So you'd prefer it be made out of platinum or gold rather than the solid 10lbs of metal it already is? Wow me too! 

I got my Warthog for $150 brand new off Amazon btw.

[Gman]

Ya, was thinking/hoping the same too, if VKB has a new throttle coming out with the G-fighter, this is big, big news.

The WH is by far the best option right now, but VKB COULD change that with the Gfighter, as it actually takes the WH stick, with a better bottom end, again, best of both worlds.

$150 for the WH stick is a deal, I know NewEgg USA was selling both for 300$ not long ago too - of course I can't buy from there in CDN, so I pay 550$ plus tax/shipping for all of mine.  I did find a used one for 300$ once and bought that, and I have 2 Cougars as well, one which is new.  The external quality is OK, but the internal is where they fall on their face, I don't know where to start to criticize what they built, and on top of that, the workmanship in 2 out of 3 of mine is terrible - as in as terrible as some of the CH products stuff post buy out.

I won't buy the X55 either, even to add to my collection, which is about 15 different HOTAS from the Suncoms to the first TM F22/F16 TQS, the first throttle I ever bought in the early/mid 90s, and so on.  I don't count my first stick only like the CH Flightstick and so on.  Last Saitek after the x36/x45/x65/x52 was the 52, no more, not even to collect, they are complete crap IMO.  If you've never taken a Warthog all the way apart, watch some of the YT videos, and see the close ups taken of various flaws and shoddy work done with them.  Here are 2 out of a pile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQOOoPdmRl8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS3t77k0M3I

[Ack-Ack]

Ack-Ack I think you are confusing the Gladiator Plus Pro with the Gunfighter joystick. Unless you have some info I haven't stumbled across yet. http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?t=1947

 
Sik

Yeah, got them mixed up.  Meant the Gladiator Pro Plus.

[FESS67]

Instructions to inspect the throttle:  "Remove the 4 screws on the base..."

There are 5 screws that you need to remove.....not a good start lol.

"Connect your throttle to your computer and ......gently move the connectors on the PCB and look at the game controllers panel....."

Well this is the whole issue, the throttle is not recognised in windows so this step can never be completed.

I saved myself time and stress and bought another Warthog.  Will be delivered this afternoon

[Gman]

That's what I ended up doing too Fess - I eventually got the problems fixed (not the same as yours, mechanical as opposed to something to do with the board/USB connection or whatever), with the one I had broke, but just got a new one before that,  as it's still the best option for hotas out there, so IMO the only real option is to just replace and move on.

The stick AkAk was talking about, the Gladiator "Pro", is going to have a pretty beefy cam/internal design, I may get one too, if the Gunfighter is going to be a year longer.

I still think TM really, really dropped the ball, by not coming out with a "new"  Hotas at their big media event.  Seriously, who rents an aircraft carrier museum to tell the PC hardware world...essentially nothing.  Some cheap crappy new rudder pedals that are 80$ and a cheaper throttle were the main events.  Lame.