Prepping for Black Friday/Cyber Monday

[EskimoJoe]

Hey all. I've never built a PC before, but I'd like to create a small list of things I want to buy for my first gaming PC rig. I can get help from some of the guys I work with putting it together, but I don't know where to start and the basics of it all.

Ideally I'd want to figure out my graphics card options, and go from there. The price range I'm looking for is sub $800 for a PC that can run at least ARMA 3 with some eye candy and a good frame rate, and I plan on accomplishing this with deals during Black Friday and Cyber Monday while I'm here deployed, assuming the internet is running those days.

Where to start?

[BaldEagl]

Will your old system be retired or do you have a keyboard, monitor, mouse, speakers, headphones you can re-use?  Can you swap a hard drive, optical drive or even soundcard from an old system?  What operating system are you currently using?  How big is your current power supply and how old is it?

Generally you should build around a processor to build a balanced system with no bottlenecks.  It doesn't help to have a killer video card if the rest of the system can't keep up.

[Bizman]

PcPartPicker is a good starting point. There's guides, examples of completed builds and - what I find the most useful - the system builder. You simply add things to your system from the list of all available parts, seeing how the price grows. Compatibility checking is by default on so your plan should be working. And here's the best part: You can copy your plan and paste it here for further evaluation! There's people here who seem to know every detail about components as well as those who can give rougher guidelines. Nonetheless, you'll get some very good advice which you can then take or leave depending on your desired level of fine tuning.

[EskimoJoe]

Will your old system be retired or do you have a keyboard, monitor, mouse, speakers, headphones you can re-use?  Can you swap a hard drive, optical drive or even soundcard from an old system?  What operating system are you currently using?  How big is your current power supply and how old is it?

Generally you should build around a processor to build a balanced system with no bottlenecks.  It doesn't help to have a killer video card if the rest of the system can't keep up.

No old system to scrap from. My laptop that I use here is running Windows 10 Home, which was the free upgrade from the monstrosity that is Windows 8.

I plan on picking parts up piece by piece until I can put it all together. I have a cheap plug-in keyboard that I can use when I get back to the states, but that's literally it as far as parts go. I could also use my TV as a temporary monitor, until I find/can afford a proper one. Thanks for the advice on building around a processor though, I'll keep that in mind.

PcPartPicker is a good starting point. There's guides, examples of completed builds and - what I find the most useful - the system builder. You simply add things to your system from the list of all available parts, seeing how the price grows. Compatibility checking is by default on so your plan should be working. And here's the best part: You can copy your plan and paste it here for further evaluation! There's people here who seem to know every detail about components as well as those who can give rougher guidelines. Nonetheless, you'll get some very good advice which you can then take or leave depending on your desired level of fine tuning.

Thanks for the website and tips, Bizman. I had heard of it before but I hadn't yet used or bookmarked it. I think I'll give that a go when I get a decent chunk of spare time.

[BaldEagl]

You may want to consider raising your budget.  You can build a decent box for around $700 but even that's tight.  By the time you add peripherals and an operating system you've likely added another couple of hundred.  You'll have a nice, mid range system near your budget but don't expect full eye candy in most modern games.

If you want something really capable you've got to be thinking $1000 or more for the box plus OS but then you still have peripherals to deal with.

[EskimoJoe]

You may want to consider raising your budget.  You can build a decent box for around $700 but even that's tight.  By the time you add peripherals and an operating system you've likely added another couple of hundred.  You'll have a nice, mid range system near your budget but don't expect full eye candy in most modern games.

If you want something really capable you've got to be thinking $1000 or more for the box plus OS but then you still have peripherals to deal with.

I'm not looking for a terribly high-end system, per se. A decent middle ground PC that can run some newer games with decent frames and a little eye candy. My budget is somewhat flexible on this, and my commitment relies on seeing what I can do from here on the big sale days, hopefully picking the bulk of my parts from that and peripherals after my deployment ends.

A couple questions I've come up with using PC part picker..
1, is a wired network adapter necessary for an ethernet plugin to a router or moden, or will a wireless adapter accomplish this with the added bonus of wifi?
2, for power supplies, what should I look for? Something closer to what the PC will require, or the more the merrier?
3, case fans. Necessary for keeping a rig cool, or just an added bonus?

This is what I have for my list so far -

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/list/kbQqpb
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/list/kbQqpb/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD FX-4350 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($84.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($24.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI 970 GAMING ATX AM3+ Motherboard  ($87.88 @ OutletPC)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($33.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($47.49 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 8GB G1 Gaming Video Card  ($429.00 @ B&H)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case  ($55.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply  ($32.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer  ($16.88 @ OutletPC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit  ($88.89 @ OutletPC)
Wired Network Adapter: TP-Link TG-3468 PCI-Express x1 10/100/1000 Mbps Network Adapter  ($11.88 @ OutletPC)
Wireless Network Adapter: TP-Link TL-WDN4800 PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n Wi-Fi Adapter  ($38.84 @ OutletPC)
Case Fan: Cooler Master SickleFlow 69.7 CFM  120mm Fan  ($5.99 @ NCIX US)

Total: $958.68

[Bizman]

That's a good start you've got there.

As for your questions:

1, there's a wired network adapter already in the motherboard. You don't need another. WiFi has its point, but in online gaming a wired connection would be preferred because of stability. Read this thread about it.
2, 500W is a little weak although it's the recommended size for your video card choice. A little overhead would be good to have for extra fans, disks, aging etc. Too much excess power will cause issues, too, so don't exaggerate. Somewhere around 600W should do. Also, pay attention to the build quality! Basically gold or platinum rated are better than bronze rated, some manufacturers are more reliable than others (Seasonic), "japanese capacitors" is a good marketing slogan etc.
3, case fans definitely are necessary! Current case models have the power supply in the bottom, taking air from the below instead from inside the case. The more and bigger exhaust fans you have, the cooler your system will be. And quieter! Big fans don't need to spin fast so they're much quieter than small ones. Also, the decibels don't add linearly: 2*15 dB isn't 30, it's about 17! Keeping the inside of your computer (and your PSU, for that matter) is crucial: Raising the internal temperature permanently by 10 degrees will halve the life span of the capacitors of your components. Equally, lowering the temp by 10 deg will double their life span. Your goal is a little higher than room temperature since you can't go below that.

There's been talk about Intel being a better choice for AH than AMD, but there's also been well argumented comments about how Intel has been favoured in some tests. It depends on what you want to do with your system, there's tasks where AMD is a better performer.

[EskimoJoe]

Thanks for your help, Bizman. I hadn't noticed the motherboard had a ethernet port. I was following that thread about the wifi as well. I knew about wifi occasionally causing some packet loss issues, but didn't know about the half/full duplex stuff.

I've changed my power supply to the "EVGA SuperNOVA GS 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply",

http://pcpartpicker.com/product/h3FXsY/evga-power-supply-220gs0650v1

as well as getting rid of the extra adapters and adding another 120mm fan and a 140mm fan for giggles, seeing that there were plenty of potential spots in my case for them. A couple more questions I've come up with are..
1, how do sound cards effect sound? In my limited experience, using a good pair of headphones makes enough of a difference to me, and I don't plan on hooking up a sound system any time soon.
2, as far as memory is concerned, does more make any difference past a certain point? I have 2x 4gb DDR3 1600 selected for this. What difference would 16gb make, and how does multiple memory sticks make a difference other than raising the total? (Say, 4x 4gb for 16gb total, or 2x 8gb for the 16.) Aside from space considerations, is there anything particularly noteworthy about how the total memory is achieved?

In other news, this is addicting and I'm trying not to outright buy all the parts now and have them shipped home. Gotta wait for sales, gotta wait for em...

 

[Bizman]

That PSU looks wonderful, and the reviews aren't too bad either. You might like to take a look at this one, especially the parts and the conclusion pages: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/SuperNOVA_GS_650/

Back at your questions:

1, a "real" sound card takes some of the load off of the processor so it might help fine tuning your system for the last missing frame. However, the motherboard manufacturers have gone a long way from the buzzers so you may be happy with the built-in one, too. Some say that a dedicated sound card will improve your ability to hear directions and distances and that may be true. For music listening purposes an external (outside the case) sound card known as a DAC would be the best choice. Try with the onboard one and if you're not happy, get a better one. It's easy to add one if needed.

2, as with anything, enough will be enough. How much that enough is depends on what you're planning to do. For running games 8 GB will suffice, 16 is not overkill. If you plan to do any serious photo or video editing, you might feel that even 32 GB won't suffice. Memory is relatively cheap, so getting 16 GB would not be a bad choice.
- Memory works in pairs for dual channeling, so get pairs. For expandability take 2*8 GB which allows you to get another pair if you feel like it later. Adding another pair will also add to power consumption a little, that's where you need the overhead of your PSU.
- Another thing to consider in RAM sticks is the CAS latency. The lower the faster. Looking at your list I noticed that the G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3-1600 is available in several CAS versions without adding too much to the price. http://pcpartpicker.com/product/ntzv6h/gskill-memory-f31600c7d16gtx might be a good choice, fast but not too expensive.

[Chalenge]

There is no onboard solution that can perform better than either the Sound Blaster Z series cards, or the X7 DAC. Onboard solutions are just temporary substitutes while you save up for the better device.

[Vulcan]

There is no onboard solution that can perform better than either the Sound Blaster Z series cards, or the X7 DAC. Onboard solutions are just temporary substitutes while you save up for the better device.

I stopped bothering with SB cards about 3 motherboard changes ago. Most of the time I play on headphones and I just do not notice the difference any more.

[Chalenge]

Audio is one of those things that has no clear cut metric. In order for a user to even notice the difference they have to spend many, many hours playing games that demand spot-on precision when it comes to positioning of audio cues. For the most part, if all you need audio for is an indication that your engine is on, or that your guns are firing then you are probably good with onboard audio, or even USB headsets.

For me the muddy, shallow, and even flimsy audio that comes from USB, or onboard audio chips just cannot compare with a great card like the Sound Blaster Z. There is nothing that compares with the majesty of M-Audio, but the X7 DAC comes mighty close. Bear in mind, I also record audio on professional equipment like the Marantz field recorder, or the TASCAM DR-60D Mark II (I have others, but these are my two favorites). I use both the ZxR, and X7 Limited for content creation, so I have directly compared audio from just about every device possible. For YouTube I record using a professional level RE 20 microphone through a Behringer Equalizer, Yamaha Mixer, and ART compressor (not always) and compared to a USB headset? No comparison.

For games? 3D representations of audio impulses are obviously clearer through a device that does its own processing. I have helped many people through the conversion of USB to a good card like the Z, or X7 and without exception they have all said the same thing. I.E. How did I play without this?

The reality is that it is not a big difference and as I said there is no one single, clear cut metric that can define the difference. Yet, there is a very big difference once it becomes obvious that you, as a human, have this one major sensory input called audio that can be used to great advantage.

Also, I believe that if you are using USB headphones, then you are killing your hearing.

[EskimoJoe]

The reality is that it is not a big difference and as I said there is no one single, clear cut metric that can define the difference. Yet, there is a very big difference once it becomes obvious that you, as a human, have this one major sensory input called audio that can be used to great advantage.

Also, I believe that if you are using USB headphones, then you are killing your hearing.

Thank you for the insight, Chalenge. I think that after some time, a sound card will definitely need to be added in the future, but it can wait. I think after we're done here, I won't have any hearing left to worry about sound cards, baha!

[Vulcan]

Audio is one of those things that has no clear cut metric. In order for a user to even notice the difference they have to spend many, many hours playing games that demand spot-on precision when it comes to positioning of audio cues. For the most part, if all you need audio for is an indication that your engine is on, or that your guns are firing then you are probably good with onboard audio, or even USB headsets.

For me the muddy, shallow, and even flimsy audio that comes from USB, or onboard audio chips just cannot compare with a great card like the Sound Blaster Z. There is nothing that compares with the majesty of M-Audio, but the X7 DAC comes mighty close. Bear in mind, I also record audio on professional equipment like the Marantz field recorder, or the TASCAM DR-60D Mark II (I have others, but these are my two favorites). I use both the ZxR, and X7 Limited for content creation, so I have directly compared audio from just about every device possible. For YouTube I record using a professional level RE 20 microphone through a Behringer Equalizer, Yamaha Mixer, and ART compressor (not always) and compared to a USB headset? No comparison.

For games? 3D representations of audio impulses are obviously clearer through a device that does its own processing. I have helped many people through the conversion of USB to a good card like the Z, or X7 and without exception they have all said the same thing. I.E. How did I play without this?

The reality is that it is not a big difference and as I said there is no one single, clear cut metric that can define the difference. Yet, there is a very big difference once it becomes obvious that you, as a human, have this one major sensory input called audio that can be used to great advantage.

Also, I believe that if you are using USB headphones, then you are killing your hearing.

I played DayZ for a couple of years that requires accurate audio.

I've used SB cards for many years - since around 1989/90 in fact. Prior to that my sound card was essentially the chipset from an Atari ST ripped out and slapped on an ISA card.

Yeah sure if you're creating content and need advanced audio sampling/processing then the SB might be worth it. For gaming... nah.

[Chalenge]

I will always remember this quote from sound design class: "Sound is half of the experience." - George Lucas. Now he was talking about movies, yet games are really not much different.


I would drop the mic, except mics are part of it too.