AH 3 Video card List

[Condor]

So what is the impact of a large page file and what is optimal? I just looked at 8 DxDiag files posted in the Beta testing forum for win 7 64 bit systems an all but one had page files lower than the 2692 used that I saw on mine after a fresh boot and 10 min of stabilization time. Bizman, yours is the 2nd below 2,000. I have 8Gb of RAM. I only use this computer for AH and some web browsing. No music or photos. An occasional youtube video I do have office on it but it's not used much. So I'm surprised my used page file is so large but does it matter?

I'm kind of guessing what Challenge said about optimizing the page file may be correct. The 1,000MB or less that TC recommends appears to be the exception.

[Chalenge]

The more RAM you have the larger Windows will set the Page File. I have read all sorts of ideas from users, like using a RAM disk as a replacement for the page file (I think I mentioned how ridiculous that is). Experimental data handling labs with computers that only do one thing have experimented with the various Windows system settings and in those situations perhaps changing the page file makes sense. For consumer usage it does not make sense, especially for gamers.

This is old news. MSFS users long ago learned that you do not mess with Windows system settings, though some continue to try.

Repeating the same behavior expecting a different result and all that . . .

[guncrasher]

condor, just make sure you dont have a lot of programs that proload that you arent gonna use.  for example your printer.  Me I print a page maybe once a month.  so I dont have it open.

goto blackviper.com  they give you lots of ideas on how to tweak your system.  just be careful.  understand what process you are gonna disable and understand why you need to do it and how it's gonna affect your system.


semp

[Kenne]

condor, just make sure you dont have a lot of programs that proload that you arent gonna use. 

where do you go to 'turn off' said programs?

[Bizman]

So what is the impact of a large page file and what is optimal? I just looked at 8 DxDiag files posted in the Beta testing forum for win 7 64 bit systems an all but one had page files lower than the 2692 used that I saw on mine after a fresh boot and 10 min of stabilization time. Bizman, yours is the 2nd below 2,000. I have 8Gb of RAM. I only use this computer for AH and some web browsing. No music or photos. An occasional youtube video I do have office on it but it's not used much. So I'm surprised my used page file is so large but does it matter?

I'm kind of guessing what Challenge said about optimizing the page file may be correct. The 1,000MB or less that TC recommends appears to be the exception.

The size of the page file and the actual usage of it are two different things. Thus having a large (-ish) page file is not a bad per se. In the earlier days of PC computing it was a common tweak to set a fixed size for the page file in order to reduce unwanted cpu usage. Weak computers used to suffer from the constant pumping of the expanding page file. Since Win7 the same experts who advised such tricks have been telling people let Windows take care of paging for better results just as Chalenge says.

As for getting a low page file, Guncrasher is on the right track. Cutting down the number of Windows processors using Blackviper's advice is only part of it. There's a lot more running in the background. The low page file/low process count/low idle cpu usage starts at the Windows installation. I choose not to receive the "optional" Windows updates right at the start. That alone can opt some processes out. Installing any software and I really mean any, has to be done as "Custom" instead of "Easy" or "Recommended" to be able to uncheck all the crap that many software packages contain. HP all in one printers are among the worst. I just uninstalled one, it had a total of 8 (eight) installed programs listed!!! Two of them remained in the Startup list until I wiped them off with CCleaner in administrator mode. You really don't need a "Customer experience program" running in the background, ever. Not by HP, not by Windows. Nor does your multifunction printer need to check for updates daily.

Another trick to reduce background clutte is to go through the settings of each and every program you've installed and set them not to start at Windows startup as well as set them update only manually.

Last but not least, in Windows' Programs and Features, uninstall the programs you never use.

<Edit>You can "turn off" programs in the Task Manager, which you can find by right clicking the Task Bar in the bottom of your screen. That's a temporary fix. For a permanent treat, look for the settings of each. For Windows Services, read Blackviper's site thoroughly to understand what you're doing.

[Dragon]

Pagefile is full, computer never turns off.  Just installed the GTX 950.( PassMark score 5241 )  @ $110 after rebate.  Run almost solid 60 with most graphics turned up.  Saw some tearing and stuttering over water over the weekend but didn't mind it too much.

Edit:  If anyone wants a 9800GTX+, let me know, I have 2 on the bench right now sitting next to a GTX 260 and I will have a third 9800 as of tomorrow when my son's birthday present arrives from NewEgg.  Yep, he's getting a GTX 950 too.

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 8/30/2016, 20:49:43
       Machine name: DRAGON-PC
   Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr.160408-2045)
           Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
       System Model: EP45T-UD3P
               BIOS: Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG
          Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     E8400  @ 3.00GHz (2 CPUs), ~2.7GHz
             Memory: 4096MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 4094MB RAM
          Page File: 2408MB used, 5778MB available
        Windows Dir: C:\Windows
    DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
   User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
 System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
    DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
     DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 32bit Unicode


---------------
Display Devices
---------------
          Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 950
       Manufacturer: NVIDIA
          Chip type: GeForce GTX 950
           DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
         Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_1402&SUBSYS_32081462&REV_A1
     Display Memory: 3761 MB
   Dedicated Memory: 1970 MB
      Shared Memory: 1791 MB
       Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)
       Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
      Monitor Model: SMS27A350H
         Monitor Id: SAM07CD
        Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.000Hz)
        Output Type: HD15
        Driver Name: nvd3dumx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um
Driver File Version: 10.18.0013.5582 (English)
     Driver Version: 10.18.13.5582
        DDI Version: 11
       Driver Model: WDDM 1.1
  Driver Attributes: Final Retail
   Driver Date/Size: 8/25/2015 14:46:21, 15512888 bytes
        WHQL Logo'd: Yes
    WHQL Date Stamp:
  Device Identifier: {D7B71E3E-5742-11CF-1C62-05121CC2C735}
          Vendor ID: 0x10DE
          Device ID: 0x1402
          SubSys ID: 0x32081462
        Revision ID: 0x00A1
 Driver Strong Name: oem4.inf:NVIDIA_SetA_Devices.NTamd64.6 .1:Section032:10.18.13.5582:pci\ven_10de&dev_1402
     Rank Of Driver: 00E62001
        Video Accel:


-------------
Sound Devices
-------------
            Description: Speakers (Logitech G933 Gaming Wireless Headset)
 Default Sound Playback: Yes
 Default Voice Playback: Yes
            Hardware ID: USB\VID_046D&PID_0A5B&REV_0101&MI_00
        Manufacturer ID: 65535
             Product ID: 65535
                   Type: WDM
            Driver Name: USBAUDIO.sys
         Driver Version: 6.01.7601.18208 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
            WHQL Logo'd: Yes
          Date and Size: 7/12/2013 06:40:58, 109824 bytes
            Other Files:
        Driver Provider: Microsoft
         HW Accel Level: Basic
              Cap Flags: 0xF1F
    Min/Max Sample Rate: 100, 200000
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 1, 0
 Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0
              HW Memory: 0
       Voice Management: No
 EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
   I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No

            Description: Digital Audio (S/PDIF) (High Definition Audio Device)
 Default Sound Playback: No
 Default Voice Playback: No
            Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0885&SUBSYS_1458A102&REV_1001
        Manufacturer ID: 1
             Product ID: 65535
                   Type: WDM
            Driver Name: HdAudio.sys
         Driver Version: 6.01.7601.17514 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
            WHQL Logo'd: Yes
          Date and Size: 11/20/2010 06:44:23, 350208 bytes
            Other Files:
        Driver Provider: Microsoft
         HW Accel Level: Basic
              Cap Flags: 0xF1F
    Min/Max Sample Rate: 100, 200000
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 1, 0
 Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0
              HW Memory: 0
       Voice Management: No
 EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
   I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No

---------------------
Sound Capture Devices
---------------------
            Description: Microphone (Logitech G933 Gaming Wireless Headset)
  Default Sound Capture: Yes
  Default Voice Capture: Yes
            Driver Name: USBAUDIO.sys
         Driver Version: 6.01.7601.18208 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
          Date and Size: 7/12/2013 06:40:58, 109824 bytes
              Cap Flags: 0x1
           Format Flags: 0xFFFFF

            Description: Digital Audio (S/PDIF) (High Definition Audio Device)
  Default Sound Capture: No
  Default Voice Capture: No
            Driver Name: HdAudio.sys
         Driver Version: 6.01.7601.17514 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
          Date and Size: 11/20/2010 06:44:23, 350208 bytes
              Cap Flags: 0x1
           Format Flags: 0xFFFFF

[Bizman]

What do you mean by "Pagefile is full, computer never turns off"? Is it on 24/7?

Your report says "Page File: 2408MB used, 5778MB available"  so based on that it doesn't seem to be full. Where did you get the idea or information of it being full?

Thanks for the info about the GTX950, that might improve the performance of my rig without having to invest to a full rebuild.

[Dragon]

I wrote that without reading my report.  I assumed it would be full since I leave the computer on 24/7 since my power button screwed up and have to take the side panel off to hit the tiny little power button to turn it back on.

Glad the info on the 950 helped.  I bought the MSI on sale with rebate and the Asus 950 arrived today.  We both have E8400 processors on different boards each with 4 GB RAM.

[Bizman]

If you have a reset button in your system, you can swap the plugs on the motherboard so you can start your computer with the reset button, leaving the start button unused. Or, if you'd like to do it more neatly, open the front panel and swap the buttons there too to match the functions.

Actually, I'd start with the front panel: On some cases the large start button is attached to nylon springs which may break, causing the big button miss the micro button below. In such a case just tear the big button off and use the micro button in the bottom of the hole.

[mikev]

You would think.  I have a 980TI and I get stutters in AH3 with all the bells and whistles. My processor is a i7-4790K at 4.0 GHz

have the exact same set up with no problems, max setting or not. maybe check the heat of your card AH3 will heat them up at max settings.

[Skuzzy]

Pagefile usage became very different since the "Superfetch" service was implemented in Vista.  The amount used in the pagefile will vary from user to user, based on applications used as those get pre-loeaded by the Superfetch service.

Superfetch has also changed since it was implemented in Vista.  In Vista, it would pre-load everything without regard to what the user was doing with the computer.  Made the first few minutes, after a fresh boot, agonizingly slow.

Windows 7 saw the change which caused Superfetch to be a little smarter.  Only pre-loading when the user was not doing anything.  Still a bit stupid though as it would still fight with the Windows Update service and cause the Update service to take longer to install patches/updates after the boot.

Windows 8.1 (not 8) finally saw Superfetch get a bit more smarter and stop fighting with higher priority processes.

If you are running an SSD, disabling Superfetch could result in less pagefile usage without any performance penalty.  As a matter of fact, of your pagefile is not on the SSD, you might actually pick up some performance when loading applications as your preloaded application might be stuck in the pagefile.

As far as adjusting the page file goes.  I would not leave the page file to be managed by Windows, with a caveat.  I'll explain.

First off, leaving Windows to manage the pagefile means Windows will use any available space in the C: drive filesystem as memory.  Each block/page is 4K in size as that is the smallest memory page size in the Intel virtual memory hardware scheme.  So, the page file could be thousands of pages scribbled all over drive C: as Windows will just use whatever free disk space it can find on C: to write those pages.  It will cause more fragmentation on C:.

When you disable page file management, and create a dedicated pagefile, the dedicated pagefile is guaranteed to be in contiguous disk space (it has to be).  The will result in faster reading and writing from/to the page file, especially if your pagefile is on a hard drive.  You also have the option of creating page files on other disks in your system.  It also helps to reduce fragmentation of drive C:.

For instance, I have 4 hard drives in my home computer.  I have a pagefile on each drive.  Windows will use the pagefile of the least active hard drive each time it needs it.

Now, the caveat.  If you are running the pagefile from a hard drive, you will want to create the dedicated pagefile as soon as Windows is installed.  Why?  The longer you wait, the more fragmented the drive file system gets.  The Windows pagefile has to be contiguous.  Creating it long after Windows has been installed will usually cause the page file to be place closer to the center of the hard drive platters where the bit rates of the data stream are slower.

The defragmentation utility provided by Microsoft, no longer does a full physical defragmentation so you cannot get back to what appears as a fresh Windows install without resorting to an actual full installation (not a repair installation).

The actual performance gains from a dedicated page file are difficult to measure as the pagefile usage will depend on the applications being used.  Logically, a contiguous space on the disk is going to be faster to access than a dis-contiguous space.

[Bizman]

Good to know.

As for creating a dedicated pagefile right after installing Windows, I'd do a defrag first. I'm not sure about the most current versions, but at least installing the earlier versions resulted in a dis-contiguous Windows.

[kumori]

Tight budget, so here goes:
------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 9/21/2016, 00:12:26
       Machine name: OPTIPLEX-790
   Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_ldr.160902-0600)
           Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
       System Model: OptiPlex 790
               BIOS: Default System BIOS
          Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-2400 CPU @ 3.10GHz (4 CPUs), ~3.1GHz
             Memory: 4096MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 4054MB RAM
          Page File: 1418MB used, 6686MB available
        Windows Dir: C:\Windows
    DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
   User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
 System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
    DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
     DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 32bit Unicode


OK, so here's what I'm contemplating (keep in mind it's a slim design case so a 'normal' power supply won't fit):

400 watt PSU from
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017YN37RS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AKFWYWVZ484P5

A low profile (remember, slim case) EVGA 730 GT w 2gb gddr5
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00L5GZG5C/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Obviously, the question is simply, "Will it work?"

I'm not looking to see all the bells and whistles, but I was used to steady 60fps in AHII, and I'd kinda like to be able to stay in the game.

Thanks
kumori

[Drane]

Tight budget, so here goes:

OK, so here's what I'm contemplating (keep in mind it's a slim design case so a 'normal' power supply won't fit):

400 watt PSU from
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017YN37RS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AKFWYWVZ484P5

A low profile (remember, slim case) EVGA 730 GT w 2gb gddr5
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00L5GZG5C/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Obviously, the question is simply, "Will it work?"

I'm not looking to see all the bells and whistles, but I was used to steady 60fps in AHII, and I'd kinda like to be able to stay in the game.

Thanks
kumori

Looks like those parts will work together, however, the video card is one step below the 9800GTX listed on Skuzzy's projected minimum requirements, as listed on Tom's Hardware hierarchy chart. You might be disappointed. But if that's all you can do right now it may keep you in the game.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,381442.msg5079452.html#msg5079452

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html

https://www.dell.com/downloads/global/products/optix/en/optiplex-790-tech-guide.pdf

[Drane]

It is an additional $50 but something like this would do better. You could stand your computer on it's side to get better air flow with the additional heat.

If you read the customer reviews people are able to run these cards without problems on a 790 without upgrading their power supply.

https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GV-N75TOC-2GL-Graphics-Cards/dp/B00MW8NXAW/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1474448795&sr=1-1&keywords=Gigabyte+Graphics+Cards+GV-N75TOC-2GL