Author Topic: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels  (Read 2374 times)

Offline Traveler

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2016, 04:14:23 PM »
This is 100% wrong.

HiTech

it does on my version, if I  am in the air and reduce throttle to 10 MPH and I reduce the RPM to 700 the engine sound (noise level) is reduced, IF I advance the RPM to 3000, the engine noise level is raised. I haven't advanced the throttle.   I'll send you film.
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Offline Randy1

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2016, 09:46:41 PM »
You really need to give time for the new sounds to sink in.  They seem wrong in the beginning after ah2 but in short amount of time it will sound right as if that is the way should have sounded in ah2.  AH3 sounds are way ahead of AH2.

Offline colmbo

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2016, 10:30:02 PM »
You are confusing prop noise and engine noise. In AH2 they were one sound together, in AH3 they are separate sounds. The constant sound that doesn't change much with the throttle is the RPM, lower the RPM and it changes.

But it isn't correct the way it's working.  At minimum throttle you don't hear hi RPM sound since the RPM drops once the throttle is reduced far enough that it can no longer maintain RPM.  As it is now you hear high RPM sound with low engine sound...ain't right.
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Offline FLS

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2016, 10:58:24 PM »
But it isn't correct the way it's working.  At minimum throttle you don't hear hi RPM sound since the RPM drops once the throttle is reduced far enough that it can no longer maintain RPM.  As it is now you hear high RPM sound with low engine sound...ain't right.


From what I've seen in AH3, RPM drops with low throttle, both the sound and the guage, even when it's set to full RPM, unless air pressure maintains the RPMs.  In a high speed dive RPM can increase past max and stays high with reduced throttle from air pressure. I just checked the P-38G and low throttle gives low RPM on the ground. Do you think there is too much engine noise at idle when the prop is faster from air pressure?

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2016, 11:11:36 PM »
I was going to check your ride, Colmbo, except I'm not getting aircraft types from online stats. Maybe you were flying something I haven't tried lately?
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Offline colmbo

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2016, 08:29:26 AM »

From what I've seen in AH3, RPM drops with low throttle, both the sound and the guage, even when it's set to full RPM,

On the ground it does.  I noticed this in the 51D and 38J, idle throttle on final with IAS below 150, RPM still above 2500 with corresponding sound. 

Not a big deal I guess.  Just something the real world pilot side of me notices.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2016, 08:48:26 AM »
Landing a P-51D:

https://youtu.be/T5D6spj-w7o

That's pretty close to what I get out of my sound card. The unloading of the prop as the airplane decelerates on the ground is just a matter of adding more sound samples, but I believe it can be done.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 08:52:54 AM by Chalenge »
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Offline FLS

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2016, 10:07:05 AM »
On the ground it does.  I noticed this in the 51D and 38J, idle throttle on final with IAS below 150, RPM still above 2500 with corresponding sound. 

Not a big deal I guess.  Just something the real world pilot side of me notices.

Wouldn't you be adjusting RPM to lower it?

Offline Traveler

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2016, 10:56:42 AM »
Wouldn't you be adjusting RPM to lower it?

No, in real world for a landing or taking off aircraft, the Prop control (RPM) is set for flat pitch on the prop, high speed, max RPM.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 01:02:27 PM by Traveler »
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2016, 11:12:42 AM »
The pilot's manual says 2700rpm; just like it is in the game.
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Offline colmbo

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2016, 12:04:58 PM »
Wouldn't you be adjusting RPM to lower it?

Depends on the airplane.  Generally the Prop control is put in the high RPM position to facilitate a power increase if needed.

Modern day flying the B-17 and B-24 the RPM is left at 2000RPM (vs 2500 or 2700) during approach to help prevent having the prop drive the engine which leads to premature engine failure.  As the aircraft touch down the non flying pilot brings the prop control up to High RPM.
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Offline colmbo

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2016, 12:06:04 PM »
Landing a P-51D:

https://youtu.be/T5D6spj-w7o

That's pretty close to what I get out of my sound card. The unloading of the prop as the airplane decelerates on the ground is just a matter of adding more sound samples, but I believe it can be done.

What I'm hearing i that video is engine noise.  In game the prop noise overrides the engine noise, real world you don't hear that.
Columbo

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Offline Traveler

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2016, 12:07:04 PM »
The pilot's manual says 2700rpm; just like it is in the game.
A constant speed propeller/governor is not a controllable pitch prop in the sense that the pilot sets the prop control to determine the RPM, not the prop pitch.  The governor will adjust the propeller to whatever pitch it needs to maintain the RPM, as long as the prop pitch is not at the high or low stop.  Normally the propeller control is set to full forward or full in for maximum RPM.  Full throttle and maximum RPM are used for takeoff and climb.  In the old days, you would be taught to reduce the manifold pressure and RPM after takeoff and add back manifold pressure as you climbed, for example 25 square, which means set the manifold pressure to 25 inches and the RPM to 2500.  This was found to be harder on the engine than leaving the throttle at the wide open position. The reason for this is that the throttle linkage provides for additional fuel at the full forward position and provides extra cooling in the climb.  When you retard the throttle, the mixture is leaned, the engine runs hotter, and performance is reduced. Most engines are rated for continuous operation at full power which means full throttle and maximum RPM.  Typical maximum RPM values are between 2500 and 2700 RPM.
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2016, 12:49:27 PM »
On the ground it does.  I noticed this in the 51D and 38J, idle throttle on final with IAS below 150, RPM still above 2500 with corresponding sound. 

Not a big deal I guess.  Just something the real world pilot side of me notices.

Hi Colmbo,

When in my Spitty I've noticed the same as you. The throttle and prop RPM synch up when on the ground and on takeoff. Once wheels up and IAS is above 120-150 the game now will unsynch throttle and prop RPM control to a certain extent according to the particular power\prop thrust calculations band needed to sustain proper engine power ratings for flight so a player can make separate manifold (or boost) changes w\ throttle, set to a particular player selected prop RPM within a preset prop RPM min\max range according to flight attitude (to allow for more realistic engine management control during flight IF a player is actually using the prop RPM control setting in AHII & III along w\ the throttle control). When landing, the throttle and prop RPM stays unsynched and will follow where the prop RPM is set prior.....if at 2500 it will stay at 2500, if at 2600 it will stay at 2600, if at 1500 it will stay at 1500, etc then the throttle will work within the set prop RPM setting thruout final until wheels touchdown and IAS drops below either 75 or 80 which is coded to say that the plane can't sustain enough lift to actually fly then the game will resynch the throttle w\ the prop RPM control then you will hear the engine lower it's RPM's.

Since a while back (approx. 6 mos ago) on a thread I had brought up a question in a posting on the advent of having the ability to have dual engine control, Hitech came on and posted that AH has this ability already coded and it is called prop RPM. I didn't know that all the time I've been playing this game, even though I've noticed this setting under Flight a myriad of times but never put it together.

I have this setting now mapped to my CH Throttle under my index finger hat button using the vertical 2 buttons so that I can now work both control settings using the same hand at the same time if desired....much like a RL pilot "could" be doing. Notice I didn't say "would"...............

Since I've been using prop RPM control now in conjunction w\ throttle control for the last 6 months I've gained a LOT more perspective on all this working since...........at least from within AHII\III............

The sounds are already there and present. The thing to work out IMHO is at what point do you simulate the manifold pressure setting w\ the fuel mixture setting to put the engine power output to not be sufficient to maintain the set prop RPM's when prop pitch is backed off to the min prop angle stop (min engine load from prop thrust) so after that point it is just a matter of synching the 2 back up as after this point any further manifold pressure reduction will lower engine\prop RPM's further due to further power reduction against the min prop pitch angle, correct? Then it's just a matter of assigning a sound sample change from this point for each inch\pound of manifold pressure change to match the reduced engine RPM's until the throttle is at full back position which should be at full engine idle. This would be for throttle usage in the current form in AHIII for the majority of players (player using throttle only and game coding setting the rest).

This sounds simple but I think this is not as simple to code and make it seem "real" as I've potentially made it seem from my post...................

But I CAN tell you that by my controlling both throttle AND prop RPM separate during landing makes controlling\maintaining the proper landing glide path and landing speeds MUCH, MUCH easier, especially in a plane such as a Spitfire due to the modeling of it's wing vs just using the throttle alone w\ the game modeling the engine prop RPM's at full prop RPM setting w\ the prop pitch modeled at min pitch angle. I've also noticed some aspects while in flight that are advantageous while controlling these controls separately but it takes a HOTAS w\ sufficient controls in the throttle\joystick handle where your fingers will be to take full advantage of it.

Well this is my 2 cents thrown in on this topic.

I know I'm not saying anything you don't already know.

 :D

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Offline FLS

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Re: Manifold Vs RPM Engine Sound levels
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2016, 01:00:48 PM »
Depends on the airplane.  Generally the Prop control is put in the high RPM position to facilitate a power increase if needed.

Modern day flying the B-17 and B-24 the RPM is left at 2000RPM (vs 2500 or 2700) during approach to help prevent having the prop drive the engine which leads to premature engine failure.  As the aircraft touch down the non flying pilot brings the prop control up to High RPM.

So you're saying the RPM drops but not as much as it should? In other words the air pressure is keeping the RPM too high or the engine isn't slowing it down enough for the air pressure?