When in doubt, go to the source...

[Dobs]

The website says P38L.

One of the cockpit shots (note reference to Aileron boost--not in F models, started with Late model J's):

[katanaso]

Heya Dobs,

I'm showing it as a P38-F as well, even in their press junket:  http://www.flyingbulls.at/fileadmin/content/pdf/flotte/lockheed_p-38_lightning/lockheed_p-38_lightning_EN_25.03.2016.pdf

[FLS]

The engines air scoops don't look like an L model but they may not be original. The F-5G-6-LO designation may be a modified photo recon aircraft. The serial number indicates delivery after May 1945 which is likely an L model. The cockpit photo shows a modern custom cockpit.

[katanaso]

FLS, this is from the pdf I linked above, from their website:

"In September 1945, the P-38 F-5G-6-LO with serial number 44-53254 was dismissed from the Air Force and registered as civil aircraft N25Y by the Lilee Products Co. in Chicago."

[Dawger]

Heya Dobs,

I'm showing it as a P38-F as well, even in their press junket:  http://www.flyingbulls.at/fileadmin/content/pdf/flotte/lockheed_p-38_lightning/lockheed_p-38_lightning_EN_25.03.2016.pdf

You are reading that wrong.

It says P-38 F-5G-6-LO serial number 44-53254

That doesn't mean its a P-38F

Its an F-5G-6-LO

The serial number gives it away.

44 means its a 1944 serial number.

They were not producing P-38F's in 1944

Here is a warbirds registry link

http://www.warbirdregistry.org/p38registry/p38-4453254.html

https://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisk48/15660982311

Its an L model that came off the line as an F-5G-6-LO.

Maneuver flaps is 8 degrees AND 50% flaps.

The ONLY difference in a maneuver flap and no-maneuver flap P-38 is the Selector in the cockpit. The flap system itself is identical.

It was an ergonomics issue with the new selector allowing the pilot the ability to positively select maneuver flaps easily without looking or leaving his hand on the actuator.

[FLS]

From wiki.

 F-5G Reconnaissance variant conversions of the P-38L, had a different camera configuration from the F-5F.[116]

[FLS]

Maneuver flaps is 8 degrees AND 50% flaps.

You're saying the flaps extend out halfway and deflect 8 degrees?   The half extension in the video is more than 8 degrees, can they extend halfway at 2 different angles?

[Randy1]

You're saying the flaps extend out halfway and deflect 8 degrees?   The half extension in the video is more than 8 degrees, can they extend halfway at 2 different angles?

You just want give up on this one fls so I give up.  I suspect you have been called hard headed more than once.

[FLS]

Better hard than soft.   

Take a look at US WW2 fighter flap speed limits at other deflections. Compare to the P38 maneuver limit.

[Dawger]

The pilot training manual does say maneuver flaps is approximately half but it does not specify half deflection.

My experience with Fowler flap systems (quite a bit) is that they extend much more than they deflect and the pilot training manual reflects this.

It specifically says the maneuver flaps or 1/2 flaps provides increased wing area and provides greater lift. Beyond half, they act as airbrakes.

In general, with ALL flap systems, the first 10 degrees is almost all lift with almost no parasitic drag (there is an increase in induced drag). With Fowler flaps extending aft, increasing wing area as the first 10 degrees ( most Fowler systems are 8 degrees or 12 degrees for the first detent), the lift increase is very dramatic.

Once you get past that first 10 degrees of DEFLECTION the flap add lots more drag than they do lift.

The P-38 training manual is in line with the aerodynamics of that situation.

Maneuver flaps on the P-38 (as verified by the Red Bull pilot) is 8 degrees DEFLECTION and 50% EXTENSION producing boatloads of lift with very little drag penalty.

Flaps deflection past that is almost all parasitic drag with a smaller component of additional lift.

[FLS]

Generally all flap systems are mostly lift the first half and mostly drag the second half of extension.

The dive flaps are 35 degrees if you want to visually compare angles.

Any idea why Fowler flap wind tunnel testing set the flaps at 30 degrees?

[katanaso]

You are reading that wrong.

It says P-38 F-5G-6-LO serial number 44-53254

That doesn't mean its a P-38F

Its an F-5G-6-LO

The serial number gives it away.

Thank you for the correction, Dawger.  I didn't realize that I was reading it wrong.   

[Traveler]

The first notch of flaps in the AH P-38 is deflected 8 degrees down from full up if I understand Hitech correctly. This is similar to the combat flap setting in aircraft like the P-51, P-47, and F4U.

"8 degrees down"   8 degrees down from the cord line?   or because it's flower flaps, did the flap roll back on it's track from within the wing, adding wing area of 8 degrees.  I've seen the Hitech statement about the first notch of flaps being 8 degrees, but that doesn't put out a hell of a lot of flaps, on the P38 flap actuator handle, when you move it to the manvu position that motor runs for a long time and puts out a lot of flap, it still might only be 8 degrees down from the wing cord line but extended well back.

[Dobs]

So this has always been "the great mystery" of the 38. 

WWII aircraft performance has a blurb in their test report that the 38G with maneuver flap made up 180 degrees in a 360 vs the 38F (with no flaps).  http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-38/p-38g-tactical-trials.html   With no 38F in the game, makes that hard to compare:)

America's Hundred Thousand rates the turn radius of the 38 (with the disclaimer of "no maneuver flaps" used) just in front of the jug and F4U .  See link here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-kwhapBgCtYQTdnU1piY3ZRMzQ/view?usp=sharing


The 38 had two achilles--dive speed (.65 mach limit), and roll inertia.  Once you got her rolling she rolled, but getting her rolling was another thing.  With the advent of boosted ailerons, roll at speed was great...but did nothing for roll at lower speeds where full deflection of control surfaces was achievable. See link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-kwhapBgCtYRVVGY2gwWEhLNGM/view?usp=sharing

Difference in boosted and unboosted can be seen here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-kwhapBgCtYZjZzRlRFeWhWeU0/view?usp=sharing

So whatever the degree's of flaps may be for maneuver (be it 1 click or 3 clicks) they need to be deploy-able at 250mph or less, and if it is 3 clicks, needs a "maneuver flap" button to program a single press to get it there. 

PS. FLS--no maneuver flaps in the F4U-just 10 degree increments to 50 degrees:)

[FLS]

"8 degrees down"   8 degrees down from the cord line?   or because it's flower flaps, did the flap roll back on it's track from within the wing, adding wing area of 8 degrees.  I've seen the Hitech statement about the first notch of flaps being 8 degrees, but that doesn't put out a hell of a lot of flaps, on the P38 flap actuator handle, when you move it to the manvu position that motor runs for a long time and puts out a lot of flap, it still might only be 8 degrees down from the wing cord line but extended well back.

I believe he was talking about deflection of the first notch of flaps which are slightly extended. If Dawger is correct then it should be 8 degrees deflection on a %50 extension. The Hinton video is showing the extension but to me it looks like more than 8 degrees deflection.

Dobs you can compare turns in the P-38 with and without flaps without needing a P-38 G and F.  The F4U has a 10 degree flap setting, the question for Randy was what is the limit speed for a "combat" deflection of 10 degrees in other US fighters, is it as low as 250 MPH?