Author Topic: So, where is the game?  (Read 3834 times)

Offline TheRapier

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So, where is the game?
« on: September 25, 2016, 05:04:17 PM »
I really, really want AH3 to work and be a worthwhile investment. I have spent $300 for a new graphics card and nearly 20 days of time and I have a "functioning" game. The problem is that is just NOT fun.

I should say and this is pointed squarely at HiTech who it the only developer who seems to be still active. IF you want the audience that posts here, you should stop now because you already have them. They are playing and they are seemingly enjoying themselves. If your audience is this little group, you've made it. However, based on arena numbers and your subscriptions, this is a pretty small group and may not sustain any long term viability. If you want this to grow and if you want to attract new players, I'm going to humbly suggest you listen to the people who post less often or even not at all. I know that personally about half the guys I have flown with for 10 years are just quitting because this doesn't work. They won't post because it seems to do little good. Posting only results in an avalanche of "its really your fault!!" on the boards. They've tried and the experience is wanting. For them it has to work or its just not worth it. You can believe or not, I'm just posting because they won't. It is your life after all.

I have invested in this game. I have a desktop computer, three screens, CH rig, and TrackIR so I like the game play that existed in AH2. My original plan was to do a stopgap investment and see how the game worked and decide if it was worth the $3k investment for a new machine. At this point I can't make that call. I'll keep working on what I have but I have to say at this point I am impressed that HTC tried to make the same game and made it WORSE! All the problems of AH2 are there with new AH3 warts. There are still GIANT maps with just a few players on them. With dumbing down the graphics nothing looks better overall and play is much worse and in some cases non functional.

For myself, I have to say, the experience was just plain bad when I wanted it to be good. Saturday night I invested my whole evening and tried to convince friends to try as well. I tried to fly for about 5 hours. I got maybe two planes but between the screen freezing solid requiring a reboot, or discos, or fighting with AH3 and trackir to see the enemy planes (most of the night my pilots head was stuck on the left side of the cockpit so I could not cover the right side of my plane) I never landed all night, or ran fuel or ammo out which means I never completed one game play session. The game would just stop on occasion and the only way out was to reboot the computer. Bringing all the stuff back up made it so I couldn't make it back in during the arbitrary time limit.

There are a ton of problems even with a "working" program. I appreciate all the help I got from players to get to just this fragile state. I get 67 FPS but that is a meaningless measure if you can't use it. I have a machine and card well within the min spec. That isn't the problem. The problem is that the game is not there.

 1. By far the worst is the lack of a reliable shooting view. I can't look around and then snap to shooting. Even a tiny error means that the bullets just miss completely. This is really THE point of air combat and failure here makes the game pointless. I have a deadzone and center and lock in place programmed but even a slight head movement means you miss. A slight miss is as good as a mile. AFAIK this is strictly an ordering problem where the view key no longer overrides the TIR view. An easy change.

 2. Views - I can't reliably turn my head to the same place and see the same view. This means constant disorientation and skewed relationships between my plane and others and the ground. In combat that is bad.

 3. I pushed the stick forward while watching the horizon and saw the land jump up above the water so there was a gap. Which horizon do I orient to? The land? the water? something in between? That gap is how far under the water you'll be.

 4. The reduced views don't look and act like a world. My brain is constantly trying to interpret what it sees and coming up wrong. It's like "what the blazes does this color mean?" It doesn't mirror reality.

 5. Sound of Cessna. I got really tired of my flying lawnmower. Worse the sound doesn't tell you what the plane is doing. WEP on or off its pretty close to the same. What is hard to understand is that the plane NEXT to you sounds right but your plane sounds like a lawnmower??!! That is strictly a programming problem because the sound itself is there. It is just where it is played at!

 6. Featureless mono colored water. I hit it twice because I couldn't tell how high I was. It is exactly the same shade of blue in all directions.

7. Radio - nearly worthless. Can't hear people can't understand them.

8. Myriad of settings scattered all over. HTC could really help the community by putting them all into ONE document in ONE place. Making 1000 people hunt means 500 will quit before they can find it. This is NOT an intuitive game. It requires documentation.

Obviously this is working for some people but on my machine it is hard to see how. I'd love to hear from one of you guys that are happy with it and hear how it works for you. Might help me to see what I can change. I'm going to keep tweaking but after two and a half weeks, I am really disappointed. As it stands, the experience isn't worth the effort.

I wish I had something better to say but that is really all I could see. I'm giving it till this month's sub runs out to get it working but really I've already invested way more than the $14.95 per month is worth. It is crazy for me to pay to be a tester.

Thanks!
--)-Rapier--
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Offline kappa

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2016, 05:12:28 PM »
sorry for your troubles.. But, I seriously hope you don't invest $3k in a new computer.. If you are sure  you will no matter what.. Let me know.. I can sell you a better one for $2995...   haha  seriously, you should be able to upgrade for $800 max..
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Offline palef

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2016, 05:22:42 PM »
sorry for your troubles.. But, I seriously hope you don't invest $3k in a new computer.. If you are sure  you will no matter what.. Let me know.. I can sell you a better one for $2995...   haha  seriously, you should be able to upgrade for $800 max..

Depends where he lives. Your $800 computer is a $2k computer in NZ.
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Offline Vudak

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2016, 05:25:28 PM »
Well, the good news is that many of the things you have mentioned have been reported prior, and HTC has been very receptive about fixing/tweaking things so far.

I think if you hang in there many of these issues will resolve.
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Offline bustr

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2016, 06:17:13 PM »
There are some issues and Hitech is working on them as fast as he can. To illustrate this, on Friday he wanted me to upload a terrain to the HOST that he had helped me get ready to pass the error checking. Once uploaded I was not able to test creating a 16 player custom terrain with it under the "Player" tab. I reported my error to him and he found and fixed a bug inside of the hour.

This post sounds like you and your squad mates expected to up in the AH3 world and everything be exactly the same as AH2 with a superior graphics engine, updated 3D modeling for 95% of existing objects, and some expectation about sounds. The people who took part in the open alpha or beta for several months have mentally transitioned to the differences. After 2 years of being a tester I really hated playing in AH2 because of the differences on squad nights and SFO. Some people take an evening, some up to a month to acclimate to AH3. And a minority simply come in here and open up on Hitech with all barrels instead.

Unless you have found a bug related to your viewing the game, which then you need to report in the bug forum, FLS can help you get your views squared away. As for cockpit sounds, they remind me of flying in an L19, Beech 18 or T28 with head phones so I could hear the other guy talking. Pilots in WW2 wore leather helmets with ear covers for some reason....   
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Shuffler

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2016, 07:21:09 PM »
Hmm the op posted a lot of blah blah but nothing constructive. No wonder the wasted money and overspending.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2016, 07:40:17 PM »
I'll paraphrase for the author of this thread:

"Woe is me"

He seems to think they he alone has hurdles to to jump and challenges to over come, and that people need to hold still while he is firing...

I dont think I've got half the PC he does and yet I've not had AH3 lock up/crash on me, I don't see the horizon issues, and I recognize that the sounds may not be ideal, at least for me, but HTC does allow for custom sounds (so effort up lad, go build a sound pack and share the wealth!). Oh, and I miss a lot too when I fire my guns.

So... pull up you big girl panties and lighten up, cupcake. Go play the game!
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline FESS67

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2016, 07:42:03 PM »
  • The reliable shooting view can be achieved with deadbands in Trackir.  I have shared my profile in another post, increase the deadband if it is not enough for you.
  • Whilst I agree that Trackir does not seem to work as smoothly as it did in AH2 and certainly nowhere near as good as in DCS it is possible to get working views.  You have to tweak your tracker to suit the game.  It is not uncommon to have to do that for many games out there.
  • There will be bugs and whilst this is frustrating I am sure they will be addressed in time.  It is your choice if you decide to persevere or take a break and check back in later in life.
  • 'The reduced views' - Do you mean it feels compressed?  Play with FOV.  106 seems to be a good starting point for many.  As for the colours, agreed, they had a sale on shades of green and left the rest of the palate out.  It is playable though.
  • Many agree, myself included.  Many disagree.  It is still playable though even if it sounds crap (IMO :p)
  • Totally agree.  Water is terrible.  I am sure it will be fixed
  • I do not have an issue with the radio.
  • The settings are really not that hard to find and set.


Offline Vraciu

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2016, 08:00:09 PM »
There are some issues and Hitech is working on them as fast as he can. To illustrate this, on Friday he wanted me to upload a terrain to the HOST that he had helped me get ready to pass the error checking. Once uploaded I was not able to test creating a 16 player custom terrain with it under the "Player" tab. I reported my error to him and he found and fixed a bug inside of the hour.

This post sounds like you and your squad mates expected to up in the AH3 world and everything be exactly the same as AH2 with a superior graphics engine, updated 3D modeling for 95% of existing objects, and some expectation about sounds. The people who took part in the open alpha or beta for several months have mentally transitioned to the differences. After 2 years of being a tester I really hated playing in AH2 because of the differences on squad nights and SFO. Some people take an evening, some up to a month to acclimate to AH3. And a minority simply come in here and open up on Hitech with all barrels instead.

Unless you have found a bug related to your viewing the game, which then you need to report in the bug forum, FLS can help you get your views squared away. As for cockpit sounds, they remind me of flying in an L19, Beech 18 or T28 with head phones so I could hear the other guy talking. Pilots in WW2 wore leather helmets with ear covers for some reason....

I have flown the T-28.  Didn't sound like this.

And we don't need ear covers.  We have speakers and volume knobs.

Derp.

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Offline bustr

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2016, 08:06:08 PM »
Sounds like the cockpits were recorded form a mic inside of one of the headphone ear covers.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Vraciu

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2016, 08:09:01 PM »
Sounds like the cockpits were recorded form a mic inside of one of the headphone ear covers.

Says who?

Glad you missed the ref, btw.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2016, 09:17:37 PM »



 1. By far the worst is the lack of a reliable shooting view. I can't look around and then snap to shooting. Even a tiny error means that the bullets just miss completely. This is really THE point of air combat and failure here makes the game pointless. I have a deadzone and center and lock in place programmed but even a slight head movement means you miss. A slight miss is as good as a mile. AFAIK this is strictly an ordering problem where the view key no longer overrides the TIR view. An easy change.

Hitech added a saved position so that you can save a view, and map it to a button. Then while you are holding that button TrackIR responds to your head movements WITH IN that view. Hold down a "6 view" key you make and you can look around the tail by leaning one way or the other, no more leaning forward or back to get around the headrest.

 
Quote
2. Views - I can't reliably turn my head to the same place and see the same view. This means constant disorientation and skewed relationships between my plane and others and the ground. In combat that is bad.

This sounds more like a change in your view set up. You do know that AH3 has a FOV (Field of view) of 80 as default. AH2 was 106. You can change this in the first screen that pops up when you launch the game under video settings. Once set to 106 my views were centering up just like I remember them in AH2 with TrackIR

 
Quote
3. I pushed the stick forward while watching the horizon and saw the land jump up above the water so there was a gap. Which horizon do I orient to? The land? the water? something in between? That gap is how far under the water you'll be.

I have no such problem. I have only the single horizon where the water and sky meet. It dose get harder to see in the dark, but it is still there.

Quote
4. The reduced views don't look and act like a world. My brain is constantly trying to interpret what it sees and coming up wrong. It's like "what the blazes does this color mean?" It doesn't mirror reality.

Again, adjust your FOV to 106 and you will feel more comfortable.

Quote
5. Sound of Cessna. I got really tired of my flying lawnmower. Worse the sound doesn't tell you what the plane is doing. WEP on or off its pretty close to the same. What is hard to understand is that the plane NEXT to you sounds right but your plane sounds like a lawnmower??!! That is strictly a programming problem because the sound itself is there. It is just where it is played at!

Agreed, but with the new sound system there are a lot more possibilities. HTC only paid for a few sounds..... yes they have to pay for the sounds they use in the game unless they actually go out and record their own sounds. So until the custom sound packs come out... Jinx and Challenge are working on set (Jinx converting AH2 sounds, Challenge using his own recordings)

Quote
6. Featureless mono colored water. I hit it twice because I couldn't tell how high I was. It is exactly the same shade of blue in all directions.

This sounds like a problem with your settings. I havent had an issue with knowing WHERE the water was though I did cut it too close once and clipped a wing for a quick trip to the tower.... did get the spit to crash first tho  :) Go to the help threads, post a dxdiag (top third) and what settings your using in the game and someone maybe be able to help you tweak your system to get a better graphic of the water.

Quote
7. Radio - nearly worthless. Can't hear people can't understand them.

HTC made the radio so that transmissions can "walk over" other transmissions. There is a setting to make it so that it plays the messages in order one at a time like AH2 did making it much easier to understand what is going on.

Quote
8. Myriad of settings scattered all over. HTC could really help the community by putting them all into ONE document in ONE place. Making 1000 people hunt means 500 will quit before they can find it. This is NOT an intuitive game. It requires documentation.

The training corps has been working on a new site putting together the info. http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/ Im sure most of the new things that were added to AH3 have not made it onto the new site as until it was released (last week) they didn't know what was going to be in it. Give them time to get it sorted. Until them there are many knowledgeable players here on the message boards that are very willing to help.

Quote
Obviously this is working for some people but on my machine it is hard to see how. I'd love to hear from one of you guys that are happy with it and hear how it works for you. Might help me to see what I can change. I'm going to keep tweaking but after two and a half weeks, I am really disappointed. As it stands, the experience isn't worth the effort.

I wish I had something better to say but that is really all I could see. I'm giving it till this month's sub runs out to get it working but really I've already invested way more than the $14.95 per month is worth. It is crazy for me to pay to be a tester.

Thanks!

First, STOP thinking of AH3 as an upgrade to AH2. You will get along much better if you look at it as a whole new game. Sounds and graphics are so different that all those minut clues you use to fly by and that were deeply ingrained after 10 years of playing are irrelevant. Time to learn a new game! Your advantage is that you have a good idea of how to fly already. Put that experience to use, learn the new "cues" and start killing again.

I have been flying the pony a lot. My wingman is MARK4 and it is what he likes to fly. It is widely known that my aim sucks, however where I have to fight to keep it at 4%, I have no trouble keeping it over 6 right now. Some complain about the bombing.....they cant see the targets and so on. I have been running a bunch of flights over towns and bases ....when there are no fights going..... learning the layouts. In 31 flights (10 buff runs and a goon supply drop)  my hit percentage is over 1000 and I have 10 kills. Setup your computer right, learn the limitations of your machine. Mine doesn't like the shadow, or anti-alison, but is ok with one notch of environment map. Post lighting off, but everything else wide open. I can see my targets, I can hit my targets including field guns ( a quick burst with 50s works well). I spent over two hours Saturday night at 69. Knight had 2 CV groups and were pushing it hard. Buffs at alt, turning and burning on the deck, no problems at all.

Im running DX11 version of the game, but there IS a DX9 version that may run better on your computer. The message boards have lots of answers from many players who have infested many hours in helping with the build of this NEW game. Ask questions, supply information, and you WILL get help.  Or, you can sit on the side lines while the rest of us have fun, your choice.

Offline mutha

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2016, 09:42:34 PM »
I updated my ten year-old computer to 16 gigs of RAM and a new card, at about a total of $300. My frame rate is a steady 60 FPS, with all features maxed.

The game still occasionally crashes on me and there are clearly more tweaks to be made, but that that's the nature of game development. What's significant is that with each new update the gameplay has improved and the game is more stable. If this not your experience, you might consider that the problems might be local/hardware/connection-based, rather than assume it's AH3 code. I don't think getting a $3k machine is necessary  :grin:

IMHO, I think that AH3 is a huge leap beyond AH2, and well worth the ten-year/$300 upgrade. The updated clouds, terrain and lighting effects have turned the arenas into complex combat environments, and I presume the update will allow for the introduction of new features and gameplay.

I'm having a tremendous amount of fun, and the devs are to be congratulated.

 :salute

-Mutha


Offline JunkyII

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2016, 09:44:45 PM »
Think it's funny Rapier said his sqauddies posted on here and were hit with the "it's fine the way it is" argument and it literally already happened again to him....bunch of savages.  :rolleyes:
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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: So, where is the game?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2016, 09:48:11 PM »
HiTech needs to engage in a solid marketing plan. With numbers, the maps are no issue. On Friday night, before FSO there were over 200 sticks online. Small compared to the old days, though a good sign for the future.

I suspect all the little kinks will get worked out. The big issue...numbers, which is a marketing discussion. Seems to be slowly headed in the right direction.

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