Somethings not right in Mudsville part two

[Zigrat]

Redwing <S> I respect 1d drivers very much   I think the f4u series as we have it now is accurately modeled, but give us the F4u-4! Instead of whining about the f4u-1 which i believe is correct, whine for the f4u-4, which will whoop some ace  

[funked]

DOA there was a test of an A6M5 vs. F4U-1D at NAS Patuxent River which determined that climb below 10,000 feet, rate of roll under 230 mph, and initial dive acceleration were identical.  

[F4UDOA]

Zigrat,

I hope you check this post again because you made a good point. Why fix the plane in AH because it already has the best K/D ratio in the plane set. Because the -1C it has four of the best cannons in the game and has a reasonable flight model. The models that should be reprented in the game is a true -1A and a late model -4. There were 1700 -4's delivered during wartime and they saw plenty of combat. I'm guessing more -4's were built than C202 and C205's during the war. The -1D however is a much bigger pig. I am surprised that more people don't notice it but the -1C is based on a different model F4U(The -1A)  than the -1D so it performs differently. At military power the -1D climbs about 200FPM slower and handles more sluggishly at low speed. The -1D also had extra weight in bomb racks and hard points that could be mounted for additional ordinance so it brought the weight up approx 800lbs. I believe these bomb racks and much of the weight could be removed for fighter operations but not in AH. In anycase I believe that the FM for both A/C is less than a historical represention and I am trying to prove it without the He said she said bull. I will do it with numbers and data. Currently the only reasons the -1C is successfull is the best cannons (duh) and good high speed handling. The -1D however which was considered in the report of joint fighter conferance 1944 to be the equal of the P-51D below 25K is absolutely pathetic in the K/D ratio. It does not represent the F4U in any historic sense.

Thanx
F4UDOA

[F4UDOA]

Funked,

Your exactly right. The F4U-1D climbed identically to the A6M-5 Zero below 10k. If it climbed like that in AH I would shut my big smelly hole and play the game. But it climbs much slower initially and sustained to 10K. I didn't mean to say that it climbed better below 10K. Initial for the Zero in AH is 3400FPM then sustaining over 3000fpm until well beyond 10K where the F4U was superior. If this were the case since climb and accelleration are tied together it would accellerate at an increased rate as well. I just want the plane that was flown in those test. Not an uberplane just one that could climb with a Zero to 10K. I am also aware that there best climb speeds varied but max rate was the same.

Also a quick aside. Shouldn't the cockpit F4U be modeled with a rear view mirror??

Thanx Again
F4UDOA

[This message has been edited by F4UDOA (edited 06-30-2000).]

[funked]

I hear ya DOA.

About mirrors, I can tell you from experience with driving games that have mirrors, that they are framerate hogs.  But yeah a lot of pictures of Spits, Jugs, Hogs show mirrors.

[Zigrat]

Well, I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is   for the rest of the tour (err today? ) i'll fly the f4u-1d exclusively. We will see how I do in it.

I just argue this because I am scared enough of pilots like kbman and torque as it is now in their big blue monster, if it gets any better ill get cremated.

[ra]

F4UDOA,

Are you sure the -1C was based on the -1A?  I know AHT says it was, but do you have any other source?  

ra

[F4UDOA]

RA,

Funny you should ask. I just went looking at another source and I read an interesting little piece of info. From Warbird History motor books international on the -1C.

"From the outside the F4U-1C appeared to differ from earlier Corsairs by only the wing cannon installation. But Vought took the opportunity to incorperate a number of major internal changes. To reduce the weight of the F4U-1C, Vought requested the BuAer permission to delete the wing bombracks and all provisions for towing ariel targets."
It also states that "The aircraft remained the same as the F4U-1 with the exception of a clear bubble canopy".

Also notice the difference in hard point slection in the AH bird. Don't know if they are accurate but at least they are different.

Thanx
F4UDOA

[kbman]

Hi Zig!,
        Just wanted to say that I'm truly honored to be in the same class as Torque in your feared Hog pilots list, even if I don't deserve it   He could paste me any day of the week, and does regularly. I think that the 1-D challenge is interesting and may try it as well. Cya up!!  
    One point in response to F4UDOA, whose dedication to the Hog I certainly appreciate,
although you may disagree with the results, I dont think HT misses much Diplomacy and respect work wonders. And I think discussions like this can only make the game better when conducted with both elements held in high standing. Just my $.02...
Keep up the good work!!!

kbman

[ra]

F4UDOA,

'Deleting wing bombracks' implies that the -1C was not derived from the -1A, which had no wing bombracks, just 1 centerline hardpoint.

Should I read this quote as implying that the -1C was just a 4-cannon -1D with no ability to carry ord, not even drop tanks?

ra

OK, I found a Vought site which shows pretty clearly that the -1C was a -1D with 4x20mm cannons:  http://www.vought.com/photos/data/f4u-1c.htm

Pyro had it right.

ra

[This message has been edited by ra (edited 06-30-2000).]

[F4UDOA]

KBMAN,

You my neighbor buddy. I'm from philly but living in Cherry Hill NJ. I try to keep it straight forward but sometimes it makes me come off wrong. Trying to stay out of flame wars or sounding to much like a baby. Sometimes I still think I do though.

Zigrat,

You would do well in a Brewster Buffalo. The high speed attack qualities of the F4U-1D in AH will do you well. Where the trouble starts is anybody with an E or alt advantage.
Their is simply no ability to reverse without bleeding so much E as to make you a big fat target. Then the lack of accelleration and climb make recovery to an offensive position very difficult. On offense you will find yourself chasing slower A/C forever to makeup ground then losing it again on any manuevering. You a very good pilot so I will respect what ever you find.

RA,

Interesting sight. Still not sure if the -1C had the same hardpoint config as the -1D though. I have seen it both way's. I do believe the AH version has the correct config on this one. But it is closer to a -1A than -1D in number of hardpoints. By the way the same link shows pictures of the
F4U-4B in service dated 1944 with 4 20mil cannons sticking out of the wings on a carrier. Wasn't this a big contraversy in Warbirds weather or not this was a WW2 aircraft or not? I guess that's the proof positive huh.

Later
F4UDOA

[RDRedwing]

Zigrat:
I think F4UDOA said it all, the 1D is a great plane as long as you have E or alt advantage, when your enemy has you'd better run.

Especially avoid 190s... their roll rate is quite similar (or even better, I never tested it) to yours so they can easily compensate the only really good defensive move of the 1D, the defensive spiral followed by a quick pullout.

When facing 190s the only thing you can do is try to make em overshoot... its dangerous (especially when guys like RAM are flying) plus it'll spoil your E, but I think its the only way to clear your 6.

I'm in no way good in the Hog though, so I might be absolutely wrong  

------------------
Redwing
Commanding Officer
Red Dragons Aces High Division

www.reddragons.de

 

[This message has been edited by RDRedwing (edited 07-01-2000).]

[Pappy]

Take the C and the D and give them to the salvation army, the Hogs are inferior to every other countries fighters in here no matter how old, dated, underpowered or poor the designs actualy were.
I can't see how they ever survived long enough to die cobbing the throttle on a bolster and torque flipping into the big blue, hell they never would have come back to land.
Every euro fighter in here eats them UP, the soviets couldn't even produce their own ball bearings yet heaven help you if one of their fighters is on your six, and 205's??? come on, the navy got ripped off by Chance Voughts finest fueselage with the injected R2800 swinging a 13 foot variable pitch prop, I say take the SUPER cannons and give us some torque to go with our torque effects.
Thankfully the old P47 spanks it too and not just in top speed, I'll die in it from now on I guess.
Some of you veteran flamers can let me know if I did this one right.

well she jumped into bed and she covered up her head and I followed in close behind her,
I lifted up the sheets and I smelled of her feets and I saw her sausage grinder.
(insert stupid smiley face here)

[Duckwing6]

i don`t quite understand what you were trying to say Pappy LOL

ahh and btw .. can the techies please take that Thread back over it`s starting to get off topic ..  i rather see one of those nice digramms to discuss about than .. well the above  

DW6

[Pappy]

Hey maybe you don't have to understand, LOL
after all I didn't write it to keep critics busy I wrote it to say the Hogs are porked LOL hehehe and all that crap