Author Topic: Now that the scenario is over  (Read 6658 times)

Offline Joker312

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Now that the scenario is over
« on: October 23, 2016, 07:00:27 AM »
I would like to thank all involved with putting this on. I truly enjoyed it. But.................

When this was in the early planning stage, Brooke asked for suggestions. Some, myself included, had concerns about the relative capabilities of the plane set. Now that its over I think we can see that the Axis aircraft totally outclassed the Allied. Although I had fun, I felt that we were always flying disadvantaged. (there's something to be said about the attraction for me to be the underdog)

One suggestion was to put in some spit9's. That was met with cries that it would imbalance the scenario and such. To them all I can say is look at the logs.

The outcome of this scenario was a direct result of the choice of aircraft not the skill or planning of the participants.

Joker
80th FS "Headhunters"
FSO Squad 412th FNVG

Offline SIM

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2016, 07:12:30 AM »
And this thread is the first openly posted whine about the scenario....


If you have to try and make excuses now, why did you even participate?

Im really anxious to see your next excuse/whine/whimper........maybe you can make yourself feel better that way .

Offline Zimme83

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2016, 07:18:36 AM »
That is of course always the problem with a scenario, It is impossible to get a perfect 50/50 balance between the sides. Just as in 1943 the 109/190 were somewhat superior to the Allied plane set. Throwing in the Spit IX would have tipped the scale in the other direction. Plus that the Allied bomber force were clearly superior to the LW in the scenario.
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline SIM

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2016, 08:50:42 AM »
The worst part of every scenario is that some moron has to whine about it WHILE CLAIMING TO HAVE ENJOYED THE EVENT.

Basically this thread was started as an excuse for being a sore loser OR it was started by someone whos intellectual faculties are lacking. Care to chose?

Offline Joker312

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2016, 09:15:52 AM »
Sim, why the personal attack? I am just stating my opinion. Did that in some way piss you off?

I did enjoy being with my friends and playing a game. I also felt that the setup was heavily in favor of one side. What is your problem with that?

Calling me a "moron" and "whiner" is your opinion and your welcome to it but don't you think it's a bit harsh and immature?

Joker
80th FS "Headhunters"
FSO Squad 412th FNVG

Offline USCH

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2016, 09:17:38 AM »
It does seem to be a trend.

Offline Vudu15

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2016, 11:16:30 AM »
Outclassed now the 109 is faster than most of your Fighters but its Firepower is on Far weaker than any Allied aircraft that you had available you weren't outclassed you were outplayed. Your leader sent you into a meat grinder for 12 hours and never deviated from that plan do you want to blame someone blame him. Then you had almost no defense for your base is in the rear and allowed my attackers to do whatever they wanted to do while your guys had to pay dearly for any and all bombs dropped on targets.

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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2016, 11:55:53 AM »
Outclassed now the 109 is faster than most of your Fighters but its Firepower is on Far weaker than any Allied aircraft that you had available you weren't outclassed you were outplayed. Your leader sent you into a meat grinder for 12 hours and never deviated from that plan do you want to blame someone blame him. Then you had almost no defense for your base is in the rear and allowed my attackers to do whatever they wanted to do while your guys had to pay dearly for any and all bombs dropped on targets.

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Relax Vudu.  We all had fun :aok
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Offline SIM

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2016, 11:58:13 AM »
Its whine and one that you try to excuse joker......thats all it is or ever will be.

So if you feel the need to try and defend such, go for it however you desire.

It will still be a whine.

I had a blast in an event i didnt plan on attending. But if i had lost, i wouldnt whine about it after the fact. Id just loom forward to the next one.

Apparently that concept is lost on some of this community.

Offline Beefcake

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2016, 12:17:40 PM »
I just want to say that it felt like I flew a Goon for 12 hours, didn't make it to target half the time and died most of time being almost unable to defend myself.

But I did have enjoyment flying over the pretty terrain and listening to music before my timely death came again, and again, and again.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 12:21:37 PM by Beefcake »
Retired Bomber Dweeb - 71 "Eagle" Squadron RAF

Offline Joker312

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2016, 12:54:07 PM »
Call it what you want, it don't matter to me. If you want to act like a child and sling insults, that's your business.

This BB is for the exchange of ideas and I am using it as such.

My intent is to give some feedback to the design team. Look at the scores. Now while they don't tell the entire story they do cry "IMBALANCE"
It was just too one sided.

I have participated in many of these events but I cant remember one that was such a blow out. Most are very close events and that is a result of good design.

Bottom line is I could care less about scores and who won or lost. I do care about the future of these events. Put out bad events and pretty soon no one will show up.
Joker
80th FS "Headhunters"
FSO Squad 412th FNVG

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2016, 01:00:40 PM »
Relax Vudu.  We all had fun :aok

We did indeed have fun. And I'm glad to hear that most of the Allies did too.

But what Vudu said is correct. The Allied plans made our job very easy. All but a handful of Jg77's kills were made inside our own territory. The one time the Allies executed a plan that was very successful - the Phase 3 big wing push with of all your fighters - it was never followed up with another try with it. Better decision making at the command level would have made a huge positive difference in the effectiveness of the Allied fighters and bombers. You guys played into our strengths and paid dearly for it.
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Offline ROC

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2016, 01:27:40 PM »
Joker, all I can say is, the Axis went into this really planning on just having fun and knowing, KNOWING, we were going to lose.  We thought the same thing you thought, we were up against spits, p38s and a slew of hardened bombers.  We were stunned, absolutely stunned, when you guys didn't do anything we expected you to do and dreaded.  We kept waiting, and waiting, for the hammer to fall that would have dominated us.  It never came. 

We weren't even sure how we did until the logs came out, and I actually thought at one point Brooke reversed the sides and mixed us up. I was stunned at the pummeling the Allies took, you guys were simply always at our best position and not yours.  It could have easily been reversed, there were so many times we saw a partial set up of a plan coming and the supporting pieces of yours never showed up to finish it. We found A20s low on the deck, and their escorts High and a full sector away.  We found bombers alone. We found what seems to have been your entire fighter roster in a group that found a squadron of ours and destroyed it, while the rest of us were flying around wiping your unescorted stuff.  Shoot I was, for much of the event, the only 110c flying and had groups dive down to the deck to get me, lucky we didn't have the heavy bombers right there with me, I stripped your high cap from a field all by myself. 

Much of this isn't a plane versus plane problem.  I know Vudu got a little defensive but in all honesty, he worked hard, we fought hard, and to have our success relegated to an imbalance of planes instead of a team that really did pull itself together and adapt incredibly well would have set me off too :)  He led a good team, give him credit where it's due.

ROC
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2016, 01:41:41 PM »
Early in frame one an entire P-38 squad was flying around doing nothing. (chasing our 3 c.202:s) while the rest of the Allied force faced the entire Luftwaffe...
''The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge'' - Stephen Hawking

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Now that the scenario is over
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2016, 01:50:11 PM »
Ok before this gets too carried away.  Joker's point is valid from a fighter drivers viewpoint.  That doesn't diminish the planning of the Axis. 

It is valid in that the fighter vs fighter set was one that did let the Luftwaffe fighters have the performance edge.  We had nothing that could catch them.  Conversely we could be caught every time.  Firepower doesn't help much if you can't catch the guy you want to shoot.  Speaking as a 38 driver, my only hope was to catch a guy by surprise or hope he might turn with me a bit. 

In the end I wrote it off as a semi reflection of history as the 38s in North Africa were new and learning the ropes against vet Luftwaffe pilots and they took a lot of casualties.  They made up for it with numbers, which a scenario will never reflect.

Again.  I enjoyed myself, but I have tended to fly birds that are not the best performers and I don't much care about the score.

Separate Jokers concern from it being an indictment of the Axis team.  It is not.  We have always balanced the numbers and understood if we didn't you wouldn't have a side want to participate.  Yet we always point to history to justify the plane set.  His argument is you have to balance in both directions, numbers and performance.  We tend not to do that
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters