Throwing it out thier "Fighter Pilot's Summer-The Nonsense Campaign"

[Guppy35]

With the understanding that I am not on the scenario team or a CM, I thought I'd throw out there my idea for some sort of event, possibly scenario based on a time frame that really interests me. 

In May 41 the Germans invaded Russia.  At that point they had moved all but JG2 and JG26 to the East to support the invasion.  In an attempt to take the pressure off the Russians and potentially draw resources back to the West, the RAF began flying operations to France in hopes of drawing the Luftwaffe into combat.  This involved fighter sweeps and operation's called Circus that involved sending a few bombers escorted by a mass of Spitfires to targets just inside France.  At first the Luftwaffe didn't rise to the bait as there was no point for the little impact the raids were having.  But Luftwaffe Leader Hermann Goering ordered that all raids were to be intercepted.   This lead to what RAF Ace Johnnie Johnson described as the most intense Air fighting of the war.  Over claiming by both sides was rampant, with the RAF in particular getting carried away.  In the end the RAF lost many more planes and pilots. They could absorb the losses however and the Luftwaffe was not as prepared for this. 

It did not have the intended impact of drawing resources from the East however, and the Luftwaffe began calling the RAF offensive "The Nonsense Campaign".  It was also the end of the road for a lot of the early aces as they were either killed, made POW or pulled off operations.  This included Adolf Galland who was shot down in flames on June 21st and barely survived, as well as Douglas Bader who was shot down by friendly fire on August 9th.

In my time machine thinking we have all the tools in AH to recreate the time, with the appropriate terrain, possibly time of day and weather/clouds to allow us to play out our own Summer of 1941.  The planes involved are evenly matched.  The Luftwaffe was a mix of 109E and F while the RAF was Spitfire II and V.  Over the course of May to August they were transitioning so that you could find all four types in the same fight.

The reality was the RAF would launch a couple of Circus Ops a day which would fit for a scenario.  In reality this was the Spitfires of 11 Group vs the 109s of JG2 and 26.  My thought was four 'days' of 2 operations each.  As it moved from May to June, more squadrons would upgrade until by the August 9th "Day" it would be all Spit Vs against all 109Fs.  I know this is just air combat, but that's what it was then.  The bombers were nothing more than bait, not that they told the bomber guys that.  I don't know that it would pay to stick 3-6 bombers in just to represent the bait, but I think it could be some real air combat over France and the Channel.

If it's "meh!', that's ok as it's something I've played with off and on just because that time frame really interests me.

OOB and the Map of the combat area below. 

[swareiam]

Let's do it!   

Why don't you start working on the write up.

[Devil 505]

Is this all, just Spits vs 109's?

I like the matchup, but it seems not very deep for a scenario.

[Guppy35]

Is this all, just Spits vs 109's?

I like the matchup, but it seems not very deep for a scenario.

I get that.   I just see it as a chance for som serious air combat while recreating the environment as it was.  It was a very simple strategy.  Get the Luftwaffe up in hopes of taking the pressure off the Russians.  As the Luftwaffe pilots said, it was the "Nonsense Campaign". 

That didn't take away from the ferocity of the fights.   I'm a cartoon fighter pilot so looking at stuff from a bomber pilot perspective isn't something I'm good at.  And as I said, the RAF sent small amounts of bombers purely as bait.

Part of me wants to see if we'd reflect the actual events of the time.  And I'd like to see who could put up the most claims.  It would be fun to me to do the kill markings after each "day" for folks and see who had the most kills on the tail of their 109 or the cowling of their Spit.

Air combat might not be very deep for a scenario, but in that historical context, it was the focus.  Reading some of the descriptions of the combat is amazing. It was really the only fighter v fighter "Knights of the Air" time of the war

[Guppy35]

One of the things that appeals to me with the match up is the plane set is basically equal.  And it is the match up historically although it would be the Spit I instead of the II.  But it's not the E-7 but the E-4 I think we have in AH so neither has the small amount of extra horsepower of the II and E-7.   

With Bader's shoot down as the last "Day", there isn't the complication of introducing the 190, which historically upset the balance for quite a while.

[Nefarious]

It's definitely an interesting idea. I think Devils Channel Dash idea would be a good in-between for allowing a little more depth as he suggested.

[Guppy35]

It's definitely an interesting idea. I think Devils Channel Dash idea would be a good in-between for allowing a little more depth as he suggested.

What would be the 'depth'?  Fighting over ships?  Asking seriously. 

It was a one off event.  You'd be introducing the 190A5 into the scenario as it's the closest we'd have to the earliest 190.  Spit Vs.  We have no Swordfish.  So you end up with the un balanced plane set again. Not sure how you'd string that out into a scenario either. 

If there is a way, more power to the idea. 

[Devil 505]

The Channel Dash is perfect for a 12 hour scenario - and I'd love it to be the next one of those.

Guppy, in your writeup you call what the RAF was doing "raids." What was being raided and how? Was it just fighter sweeps across the channel, or was there more to it?

[Nefarious]

What would be the 'depth'?  Fighting over ships?  Asking seriously. 

It was a one off event.  You'd be introducing the 190A5 into the scenario as it's the closest we'd have to the earliest 190.  Spit Vs.  We have no Swordfish.  So you end up with the un balanced plane set again. Not sure how you'd string that out into a scenario either. 

If there is a way, more power to the idea.

Depth as in Jabo and Bombers, instead of just fighters. A goal of the axis having to navigate the channel. You could even go as far as have Allied Fleets and if the Axis get Sunk then the roles reverse, Allied Fleets spawn and the Axis go after them.

Don't use the 190A5 -OR- Add Spitfire IX for balance.

As far as Swordfish? It will have to do with B-25s/Bostons and perhaps Kate?

[Guppy35]

The Channel Dash is perfect for a 12 hour scenario - and I'd love it to be the next one of those.

Guppy, in your writeup you call what the RAF was doing "raids." What was being raided and how? Was it just fighter sweeps across the channel, or was there more to it?

The raids were a few bombers for bait surrounded by a mass of Spitfires.  Due to the Spit's limited range they'd drop a few bombs on an airfield or a coastal target, all with the intent of getting the Luftwaffe to rise up and fight.  It was solely an attempt to knock down enough of the Luftwaffe in France that they'd have to withdraw Luftwaffe units from the Russian campaign to defend the RAF attacks.  So it might be 12 Blenheims with 3 bombs each or 3-6 Stirlings dumping bombs on some target while masses of Spits were about waiting for the Luftwaffe to drop in from on high.  This lead to the massive fights.   Initially the Luftwaffe ignored things, in particular Fighter Sweeps, but Goering ordered them to intercept so they went at it.   

In the end, no units were withdrawn from Russia, and the RAF lost more than it shot down.  But the core of pilots who ended up leading squadrons later in the war and commanding Wings, earned their spurs and got a lot of experience that Summer.  Johnnie Johnson is the perfect example.  It was the first extended action he got, and his first claim was a 109E during that summer.  By 43 he was a Wing Leader, but in 41 he was flying number 4 in Douglas Bader's flight.

So you could put in a few bombers to be the bait I suppose, but it wasn't about targets destroyed, it was about attrition.

Having read everything I could find over the years, I have this vision of being in a Spit up high knowing the 109s are going to be higher and waiting to break into them as they try for the bounce and the fight ensues.  And when a guy like Johnnie Johnson, who fought from 40-45 says it was the most intense air combat of the war, it gets my interest

[Guppy35]

To give you an example of how Circus Ops were set up. 

6 Blenhiems carrying bombs covered by the Close Escort Wing of 36 Spits.  Another Wing of 36 Spits would be Escort cover a bit higher.  Then there would be a Cover Support Wing of 36 Spits to protect the Escort Cover and they'd be higher.  Figure on a Fighter Sweep of 36 Spits out front as a diversion or to engage any 109s that come up.  Throw in another Wing of 36 Spits as Extra High Cover.  And then another 36 as Target Support, and another 36 as Rear Cover Support for the bombers coming out.

You end up with 250 Spitfires over France challenging the 120 109s of JG2 and 26 stationed there in defense.  Of course the LW is over their own turf, has the advantage of their own radar, and were able to get up and higher still than the highest Spits and could pick and choose when to bounce.  Often a section of 109s would dive through hoping to lure a bunch of Spits down who in turn would be bounced by a mass of 109s there to take advantage of the Spits biting on the bait.   

You get the idea. Cat and mouse that often swirled into massive dogfights where the claiming was over the top in the confusion of the battle.

These guys


versus these guys.  I'd like to think AH3 can replicate this look too

[Nefarious]

PS. As of this moment, there is no BOB styled maps as we had in AH2.

[Beefcake]

Sounds really interesting but as a bomber pilot you're going to have to throw something in there for people like me to fly otherwise I'll have to sit it out. Maybe some B25s?

[Guppy35]

PS. As of this moment, there is no BOB styled maps as we had in AH2.

That kills that then   

[Nefarious]

That kills that then   

It's in development, just not sure when it will be ready.