Who Loves ENY?

[bustr]

Thank you, as of today we have something firm from yourself rather than two sides projecting what they wish Mr. Hitech will decide. It is still musing, just not the musing some want to hear from yourself.

And it's a definitive answer since uncertainty leaves holes to be creatively filled.....

[TheRapier]

I would suggest to please start thinking about it. There is no reason for ENY to be ironclad, its a feature like ANY other.

Today is ELEVEN DAYS IN A ROW WHERE KNIGHTS HAVE HAD ENY GREATER THAN 5.0 FOR 1-3 HOURS IN PRIME TIME. That's in a game that has only about 4 hours of prime time PER day. 

If the system worked and Knights consistently had the numbers we would see that the Knights were winning an inordinate number of maps. I can state categorically that isn't happening. If ENY works just show us the stats, please show how its growing the community. IMHO, its hard to see for the crowd of people that leave when they hit it.

I will humbly suggest you have these kinds of features:
1. Stuff that works well when it is 800 per arena but doesn't at 100.
2. Stuff that works at 100 per arena.

or

A. Stuff that attracts people to play
B. Stuff that drives them insane and away.

I'll suggest that our Venn diagram has an intersection of 1 and B right now. This game can't tolerate a lot more of B and keep running since it REQUIRES people to be playing to work.

I'll humbly suggest that you put all the B features in a pile and take them out of the game, NOW. You can afford them when the population is healthier. Removing them when the population is below critical is way too late.

As a practical matter, do you really care how many times the map turns over and who wins? The server reset is automatic. It can turn 3 times a day if people are playing and the numbers are increasing. With the numbers in the tank, thinking of what increases them is a good thing.

-People having fun means they play more, more days, more hours, more money.
-People PO'd means they quit and stop paying.

Pretending that ENY gets people to play and pay is a forlorn hope. It is a fiction of this game and NO OTHER anywhere. It has no parallel in real life. So why does it exist?

If the idea of life without ENY is too scary, then take a small bite. I can pretty much guarantee you could kill ENY tomorrow and you would not see any requests for it to return after 3 months. It solves a developer problem NOT a player problem. The players don't see its benefits, only its negatives. The first team would be against the first team against the first team. NOT the first team against the third team for days on end.

At the bare minimum base it on inflight numbers and cut it completely when the arena falls below 60 inflight. It makes no sense to have ENY when the battle is between 3 on one side and 5 on the other.

Again, I humbly suggest that it is past time to get real. Living in a fictional world where we can keep doing the same thing and expect something different is just an illusion. Believing that the turn around in numbers is just around the corner is just not happening. Take a dose of reality and CHANGE!

Thanks!

[Vraciu]

Well stated.  ^^^^^

This is an example of, "Because we've always done it that way."   

But asking for a change means we are narrow thinkers, not end users who suffer. 

YMMV.   

[FESS67]

I am no fan of ENY and would be happy to see it go.  It is a tool that impacts individual players in individual ways and does not impact the whole community equally.  That is why we get such polarized views on the subject.

Some are happy to use different planes, some log off, some tank or bomb.  I usually log off.

Hitech would go mad trying to please everyone so it is understandable that he would not make a change to a system with so many differing views, he is likely to simply create a different argument.

Rapier, you and your squad fly the 51's very passively and it is very frustrating to see you run at the first sign of parity in a fight.  I know of people who have logged out due to the frustration of chasing you guys all over the map.

Perhaps heed your own advice and be prepared to make a change yourself and fly a different plane.  I can go to 12 ENY before I call it quits.  I much prefer to fly the 51 but have some other options,  give something like the P47M a go.

[Owlblink]

Just for craps and giggles, why not put out a vote in game (like there was back in AH 2 for voting on new planes) for the theoretical abolishment of the current ENY system being as it is. This way all of the community can be measured in a month's time (including those players that do not get around to checking the BBS) on their opinion of the ENY. From there the developers can make a decision of what to do and how to do it. If it passes a great majority for it to be changed, a vote could go out on a few of these ideas if HTC doesn't feel comfortable changing it in a way that they fear would hurt the number of subscriptions.

[Zoney]

Just for craps and giggles, why not put out a vote in game (like there was back in AH 2 for voting on new planes) for the theoretical abolishment of the current ENY system being as it is. This way all of the community can be measured in a month's time (including those players that do not get around to checking the BBS) on their opinion of the ENY. From there the developers can make a decision of what to do and how to do it. If it passes a great majority for it to be changed, a vote could go out on a few of these ideas if HTC doesn't feel comfortable changing it in a way that they fear would hurt the number of subscriptions.

If the voting decided to implement something against the game's best interest, then what?

The customer (us) is not always right.

[hitech]

Well stated.  ^^^^^

This is an example of, "Because we've always done it that way."   

YMMV.   

Why do you believe you know what I think? In fact making a statement like that when you considered how many player suggestions I implement in this game is rather insulting.

I have read every ENY complaint post and ALMOST ALL ideas on changing ENY are to make it LESS intrusive, I.E. less of a motive to change sides.

People have been complaining about Kill Shooter since it was created. Unless someone comes up with a new idea that I have never heard of , it's NOT going to change.

People have complained about collisions since it was created. It is NOT going to change.

People complain about ENY it is NOT going to change to a less intrusive system.

My view is that I may need MORE of an incentive to switch sides or possible force people to switch sides.
---------

All 3 of these things have ! thing in common, they are almost always complained about only from a ME ME ME view point, and NOT from a game balance / what are the other consequences of the change.

P.S. For those interested here is how ENY came about.

[usr]http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,126649.0.html[/url]

HiTech

[Vraciu]

Why do you believe you know what I think? In fact making a statement like that when you considered how many player suggestions I implement in this game is rather insulting.

No insult intended.  But on this issue inaction speaks louder than words.

I have read every ENY complaint post and ALMOST ALL ideas on changing ENY are to make it LESS intrusive, I.E. less of a motive to change sides.

People have been complaining about Kill Shooter since it was created. Unless someone comes up with a new idea that I have never heard of , it's NOT going to change.

People have complained about collisions since it was created. It is NOT going to change.

People complain about ENY it is NOT going to change to a less intrusive system.

My view is that I may need MORE of an incentive to switch sides or possible force people to switch sides.
---------

All 3 of these things have ! thing in common, they are almost always complained about only from a ME ME ME view point, and NOT from a game balance / what are the other consequences of the change.

P.S. For those interested here is how ENY came about.

[usr]http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,126649.0.html[/url]

HiTech

And with all due respect, sir, you are being...stubborn...wth this thinking.  I mean that nicely, in a constructive manner.  ENY does not induce sideswitching, it induces logging off.   If you double down on this you'll have an empty arena. 

Intransigence is not in and of itself an asset.    It has to be situationally applied.   In the case of ENY you're missing the forest for the trees.   This is what Fess, Rapier, et al. are trying to get across.

Others have correctly pointed out that ENY and sideswitch limits work in opposition to one another. 

Maybe it is chess piece loyalty.   Maybe it is map layout.   Maybe it is three sides instead of two.  I don't know.     People are not switching sides, they're logging out.  That's counterproductive. 

Perhaps if sides were just colors people would not be so tribal--far be it for me to make a definitive statement on that one--but ENY needs fixing.  It is basically a pain in the rearend right now. 

 

[bustr]

Here, it will be easier for this conversation If I paste your opening to the post you linked:

To begin with I think side imbalencing has not been that much of a problem over the years. Only on a few occasions has things gotten out of wack.

But there have been times when the numbers have gotten far out of wack.  We typicly resist any change that forces people to different sides.We typicly are more inclined to giving incentives to changing sides to the lower number country, but so far it has not been a strong enough force to always keep the sides  close to balance.


Our current thought is that a country with substantialy more numbers, say in the realm of 20% more will have a time limit imposed between flights. This time would vary with the side balance.

This would have a few effects.

1. No one realy wants to wait to fly another fight, wrather than wait some will either change sides, or log off. Either has the effect of balancing the numbers.

2. The wait time will also have the effect of fewer people acctualy in the air at one time. Hence also balancing the fighting numbers.


Your thoughts?


HiTech

[Vraciu]

Here, it will be easier for this conversation If I paste your opening to the post you linked:

We have already read this. 

That's the whole problem Rapier is referring to. 

Hitech actually ADVOCATES players logging off.  When the arena had 600 players or even 300 that may have been an acceptable "solution" to side imbalance but when you have 60 players (only a fraction of whom are actually in flight) it is not. 

[hitech]

We have already read this. 

That's the whole problem Rapier is referring to. 

Hitech actually ADVOCATES players logging off.  When the arena had 600 players or even 300 that may have been an acceptable "solution" to side imbalance but when you have 60 players (only a fraction of whom are actually in flight) it is not.

AGAIN YOU TRY CLAIM WHAT I THINK.   And you are wrong.

HiTech

[Vraciu]

AGAIN YOU TRY CLAIM WHAT I THINK.   And you are wrong.

HiTech

I am going where the evidence leads me.   

To begin with I think side imbalencing has not been that much of a problem over the years. Only on a few occasions has things gotten out of wack.

But there have been times when the numbers have gotten far out of wack.  We typicly resist any change that forces people to different sides.We typicly are more inclined to giving incentives to changing sides to the lower number country, but so far it has not been a strong enough force to always keep the sides  close to balance.


Our current thought is that a country with substantialy more numbers, say in the realm of 20% more will have a time limit imposed between flights. This time would vary with the side balance.

This would have a few effects.

1. No one realy wants to wait to fly another fight, wrather than wait some will either change sides, or log off. Either has the effect of balancing the numbers.

2. The wait time will also have the effect of fewer people acctualy in the air at one time. Hence also balancing the fighting numbers.


Your thoughts?


HiTech

Perks to counter ENY, penalty-free switching to the low side, elimination/mitigation of ENY when numbers are below a certain level...   Why NOT try it?

THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES doesn't seem to be the most effective solution here.

Thanks for the changes you HAVE made at player request.  The dar rings are a prime example.     

[popeye]

So, is ENY supposed to encourage players to switch sides to balance numbers?  Or, is it supposed to mitigate the effect of numbers imbalance by handicapping the stronger side?  (Or, both? Or, neither?)

[Lazerr]

I really dont think getting folks to sit in the tower or log off is a good way to go?  Nothing about it sounds good.  Perking aircraft based on their ENY value when side balancing is enabled sounds much better IMO.

I think the last thing we need though is LESS action.

[hitech]

I am going where the evidence leads me.   


Perks to counter ENY, penalty-free switching to the low side, elimination/mitigation of ENY when numbers are below a certain level...   Why NOT try it?

THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES doesn't seem to be the most effective solution here.

Thanks for the changes you HAVE made at player request.  The dar rings are a prime example.     

elimination/mitigation of ENY when numbers are below a certain level.

Is already implemented.

penalty-free switching to the low side

Because people on low side could change to Hi side, then immediately switch back.

HiTech