Author Topic: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom  (Read 16499 times)

Offline Rino

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #210 on: January 29, 2017, 09:09:53 PM »
I suspect the Israeli's much better training, proficiency, and well maintained aircraft had a lot to do with it.  It would be interesting to see a nose to nose comparison with equally trained and proficient pilots, and maintained aircraft. 

On an exercise deployment to Cairo West Air Base in the F-4, I had opportunity to fly a combined four ship low level and dry ground attack with the Egyptian Wing Commander.  I graciously and stubbornly agreed to him leading the four ship.  Low level was normally flown at 480 knots in the F-4.  As we followed in a tactical formation the airspeed was anywhere from 250 to 540 knots.  There was never a stabilized airspeed during the 200+ mile low level, not to mention altitude deviations.  There was a whole list of others less glaring debriefable items but, you get the picture.  We also had opportunity to examine the Egyptian Rhinos.  They were in horrible condition, sand blasted from being in the elements, didn't have engine inlet and exhaust covers installed while parked, etc.

Later, at home, a tasker came to send to crews to Cairo West to ferry two Egyptian F-4s to Hill AFB, Utah for PDM.  A couple of our younger crews jumped on the opportunity for all that XC time.  They're first stop out of Cairo was Torrejon, Spain.  Both jets landed with multiple red X write ups (groundable maintenance issues) and were stuck there for two weeks waiting for parts to arrive.  They finally arrive at Hill nearly a month later.  PDM personnel told our guys they hated seeing Egyptian F-4s show up because of the incredibly poor maintenance or lack there of.  Apparently, it was typical for the Egyptian jets to have upwards of 2,000 pounds of sand in the bottom of the engine bays. 

Months later, another tasker came down to ferry two more F-4s from Cairo to Hill.  Our same two crews jumped on the opportunity.  They had the same first stop at Torrejon, multiple red Xs, and were stuck there for a full months because of the severity of maintenance issues.  When our guys finally got home, we asked what that did for a whole month in Torrejon.  They just grinned.

     There was an interesting story making the rounds at Moody just when I got
there in 82.  We sent over 24 birds to Bright Star to play with the Egyptians.
They had birds that were 5 years younger than ours, but we had to drop our
surge sortie rates from 70-80 flights a day down to 25.

     The reason we had to slow down was that the Egyptians with the same
number of birds could only generate 5! flights a day.  Now I wasn't there so
I got this 2nd hand.  Evidently the mechs over there would work a bird for
2 hours, then pray to Allah and go home.  Apparently Allah was not a very
good aircraft mechanic  :neener:
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Offline Rino

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #211 on: January 29, 2017, 09:39:00 PM »
Payload capacity was the one characteristic where the F-4 truly shined brighter than all others. As a bomb truck it has few rivals.

(Image removed from quote.)

     That picture is not complete, it's missing a GPU-5!  Ok, we didn't use it long
because it tried to kill one of our Es, but we did mount it.

http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/HH13%20-%20GPU-5.html

     Basically a 4 barrelled GAU-8A <A-10 gun>.  The recoil was so bad it broke
a bunch of hydraulic lines on one of the first birds we mounted it on.  It was
also so fat that the poor weapon load crews had to load it by hand because
we didn't have a loader that would fit under the centerline.

     I also saw a picture in a book of an A-7 SLUF carrying two on the wings in
addition to the internal 20mm.  Yeah right, fire all those guns at once and you'd
go from a Slow Low Ugly Blanker to a Stopped Low Ugly Blanker  :rofl
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Offline Rino

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #212 on: January 29, 2017, 09:54:27 PM »
In the same boat.  My F-4 era computer was on the cutting edge in its day.  Now, it has to load shed a lot of bells and whistles to break even.  But, it can still get one good "bat turn" in once in while.

Back to F-4 flight characteristics, then there was the time we deployed eight F-4s to Cairo West from Moody AFB one hot August night.  High cruise altitude with all the stuff the mx guys could hang on the external racks, behind two KC-10s, air refueling through the tops of towering cumulus.........12.6 hours logged that night/day/early evening........... :O

....11 ARs before we landed.

     Wow!  That sounds like a marathon for sure.  Most of the ARs
mid atlantic by any chance?
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Offline Rino

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #213 on: January 29, 2017, 10:00:12 PM »
     Btw Puma, one of my strongest memories of the 106 was watching a
pair "attack" us during an ORE at Moody.  These guys obviously came from
Tyndall, so their idea of mud movng was to come down the runway heading
from S-N at 15 feet in burner.

     The best part was watching the end of runway crew hit the deck when they
made their pass.  One of my pals was working the EOR at the time and he said
he could feel the exhaust on the back of his neck!

     That was a fun exercise, we got attacked by everyone from A-10s to F-15s
to Hueys from the Ga Air Guard.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #214 on: January 29, 2017, 10:27:16 PM »
     Wow!  That sounds like a marathon for sure.  Most of the ARs
mid atlantic by any chance?

Yeah, great circle route up the east coast and across the Atlantic, Straits of Gibraltar, through the Med and into Egypt.



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Offline Puma44

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #215 on: January 29, 2017, 10:34:41 PM »
     Btw Puma, one of my strongest memories of the 106 was watching a
pair "attack" us during an ORE at Moody.  These guys obviously came from
Tyndall, so their idea of mud movng was to come down the runway heading
from S-N at 15 feet in burner.

That would have been my preferred method also, clean the runway with the shockwave.  :bolt:



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Offline bozon

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #216 on: January 30, 2017, 12:27:07 AM »
Was the F4 phantom the only plane to serve both in the Navy and the USAF?

It seems like the two services do not like to adopt each other's aircrafts.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #217 on: January 30, 2017, 01:14:31 AM »
Was the F4 phantom the only plane to serve both in the Navy and the USAF?

It seems like the two services do not like to adopt each other's aircrafts.

A-7 Corsair also did.  I am sure there are others.   
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Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #218 on: January 30, 2017, 02:02:01 AM »
     That picture is not complete, it's missing a GPU-5!  Ok, we didn't use it long
because it tried to kill one of our Es, but we did mount it.

http://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/HH13%20-%20GPU-5.html

     Basically a 4 barrelled GAU-8A <A-10 gun>.  The recoil was so bad it broke
a bunch of hydraulic lines on one of the first birds we mounted it on.  It was
also so fat that the poor weapon load crews had to load it by hand because
we didn't have a loader that would fit under the centerline.

     I also saw a picture in a book of an A-7 SLUF carrying two on the wings in
addition to the internal 20mm.  Yeah right, fire all those guns at once and you'd
go from a Slow Low Ugly Blanker to a Stopped Low Ugly Blanker  :rofl

What a beast!  :eek:
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #219 on: January 30, 2017, 09:16:26 AM »
Was the F4 phantom the only plane to serve both in the Navy and the USAF?

It seems like the two services do not like to adopt each other's aircrafts.

The Skyraider also comes to mind.

The Phantom definitely had some Navy genealogy.  The main landing gear struts are very large and robust in order to withstand the punishment of carrier landings.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 10:12:44 AM by Puma44 »



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Online Vraciu

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #220 on: January 30, 2017, 10:59:33 AM »
A-3 / B-66 is another. 

C-130.

Technically F-5 and F-16, but that's a stretch. 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 11:01:46 AM by Vraciu »
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Offline bozon

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #221 on: January 30, 2017, 12:51:24 PM »
The Skyraider also comes to mind.
Thanks, I did not know that. Thought it was only Navy. I need to do some more reading on that beast.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Online Vraciu

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #222 on: January 30, 2017, 01:22:30 PM »
Thanks, I did not know that. Thought it was only Navy. I need to do some more reading on that beast.

I believe the Air Force got most, if not all, of their A-1s from the Navy.   I'd have to look that up though. 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 02:47:42 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline Rino

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #223 on: January 30, 2017, 02:22:22 PM »
     Well our E models still had tailhooks and folding wingtips  And as
Puma can attest it took a long time to hand Jack those wheels off
the tarmac.  One of my more nervous moments was helping my
hydraulic buddies do a gear retraction test.  The Phantom didn't
seem that tall until it started wiggling around the jacks with
the gear up...whew.

     We also didn't have the easy mode hyd for raising the tips either
Imagine 4 guys trying to lift about 400 lbs of wing with their
fingertips about 6-8 inches from the fold point.

     I really. love this thread, bringing back fond memories.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom
« Reply #224 on: January 30, 2017, 02:26:05 PM »
I really. love this thread, bringing back fond memories.

Indeed!  👍  A lot of great adventure memories coming out of storage.



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