Flight characteristics of the F-4 Phantom

[PR3D4TOR]

F-15 also a cropped delta. F-16 also a cropped delta.

[Vraciu]

Yes it is a delta.

No, it is not.

It isn't even close.  It has about 1/3 less wing area than a delta.  The drag parameters are completely different.   It has a swept trailing edge and a shallow-sweep leading edge.  It is not a delta.

[Vraciu]

F-15 also a cropped delta. F-16 also a cropped delta.

These are not deltas.

Good grief, bruh.

(Some will argue the F-16 is a cropped delta, but that's a stretch, IMHO.   The term in that case is so nebulous as to have no meaning.)

For the purposes of this discussion IRT drag "Delta" = Mirage III, Mirage 2000, Mirage 4000, F-102, F-106, etc., not F-4, F-16, F-15, MiG-21, etc.

[Skuzzy]

The "delta" wing class of aircraft are defined by a triangular shaped wing, with the trailing edge being perpendicular, or near perpendicular to the fuselage.  Within the class are slight variants.

Carry on.

[PR3D4TOR]

According to NASA these aircraft have cropped delta wings.

F-15


F-16

[Zimme83]

It is a delta.

[Vraciu]

It is a delta.

Yeah...  Uh.... NO.

A delta is a triangle.  The F-4 is not a triangle.

[Vraciu]

According to NASA these aircraft have cropped delta wings.

F-15
(Image removed from quote.)

F-16
(Image removed from quote.)

Quite the stretch.

They're not deltas.   To call that a delta is a prime example of expanding a definition to the point of insanity.

In any case, the drag parameters on a wing like the F-15 is COMPLETLEY different from something like a Mirage III.

An actual delta, not the expanded bogus delta, is a different animal.   They have awful subsonic drag characteristics, especially when maneuvering.   That's why we don't see them any more except for the Eurocanards--and that's still not a true delta.   "They finally perfected the F-106."    LOL

[Vraciu]

The "delta" wing class of aircraft are defined by a triangular shaped wing, with the trailing edge being perpendicular, or near perpendicular to the fuselage.  Within the class are slight variants.

Carry on.

Pretty much.

But for the purposes of this discussion, a true delta is F-102, -106, Mirage III, etc. not these hybrids.   A true delta with their huge wing area and insane leading edge sweep angles are terrible for dogfighters.   They dump TREMENDOUS amounts of energy in hard turns.   You'll get one bite at the apple and then you better get the nose going downhill.

[PR3D4TOR]

Yes they are deltas. You may deny it all you want, but I'm going to take NASA's (and everyone else) word over yours.

[Vraciu]

Yes they are deltas. You may deny it all you want, but I'm going to take NASA's (and everyone else) word over yours.

Don't care.  Words mean things.  Deltas are triangles.  If it isn't a triangle it isn't a delta.    By this ridiculous "definition" everything is a "modified delta".   

Calling an F-15 or an F-4 wing a delta is like calling a magazine a "clip".   

A delta is an F-106, Mirage III, Mirage 2000, etc., not an F-4 or F-15.

This is a fairly good list--though I haven't studied it in depth.   At a glance just about all of these are deltas.   The A-4 in my view is borderline but close enough.   Note the F-16XL not the F-16.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_delta-wing_aircraft


NASA itself states clearly: "In fact, the wings of some modern fighter aircraft defy classification as simple delta.... "

[Vraciu]

Yes they are deltas. You may deny it all you want, but I'm going to take NASA's (and everyone else) word over yours.

Oh, and if there is one lesson to be learned by the only Man who ever walked on water...    Going with the crowd is usually the wrong answer.

[PR3D4TOR]

Who? David Copperfield?

When the "crowd" are aerodynamicists at NASA I'll go with them rather than some guy on the internet.

[Puma44]

The "delta" wing class of aircraft are defined by a triangular shaped wing, with the trailing edge being perpendicular, or near perpendicular to the fuselage.  Within the class are slight variants.

Carry on.

  well interjectd Skuzzy!

[Vraciu]

See Rule #4