Author Topic: AMD Ryzen CPU  (Read 24344 times)

Offline Skuzzy

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2017, 10:37:15 AM »
Looks like it might be undercutting Intel's prices by up to 70%.  Whoa!

Still rumor, but if that holds true, AMD may be back in a big way.
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Offline oboe

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2017, 01:19:50 PM »
I'm not an early adopter, but I consider this excellent news.   

Offline Skuzzy

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2017, 01:59:55 PM »
AMD also, formally announced they will not be supporting Windows 7 with this new family of CPU's.  I guess Microsoft got to them.  Dang it.
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Offline Bruv119

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2017, 06:16:51 PM »
Looks like it might be undercutting Intel's prices by up to 70%.  Whoa!

Still rumor, but if that holds true, AMD may be back in a big way.

gets released tomorrow!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 06:24:05 PM by Bruv119 »
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Offline ACE

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2017, 07:48:26 PM »
And is literally HALF the price.
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Offline BoilerDown

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2017, 02:04:37 AM »
Unfortunately Ryzen is not an improvement for gaming, even for the money, over the equally-priced Intel offerings.

It looks far more competitive for highly threaded tasks, which does not including gaming.  Modern games are getting better and better multithreaded code all the time, but Intel is still the better choice by far.

For dedicated video encoding, I'd rather build this (actually, I have) for less money than an 1800X: https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitch/comments/47bzdc/budget_friendly_secondary_streaming_pc_guide , as it performs better.

AMD is still going to sell a ton of these, but for gaming purposes, I have no use for a Ryzen, and for encoding purposes, I spent less to build something better a year ago from parts on ebay.  The only use I have for Ryzen is how it may push Intel to accelerate its timelines instead of re-badging the same process with unnoticeable changes over and over.
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2017, 07:57:48 AM »
The part of some of the reviews that reported that Ryzen 1800X 8-core CPU's performed better w\ some games w\ SMT disabled vs enabled is the part that I've been interested to hear as from some reading on SMT and some testing results that I've witnessed w\ my current Intel I7 5820K 6-core CPU running AHIII w\ HT (SMT) disabled vs enabled has shed some light on the validity of this.

I'll be on the lookout to acquire an Intel I7 5960X on the cheap in the meantime to install and run w\ HT disabled to
get a better understanding of using an 8-core CPU w\o HT enabled but this development is generating more interest for myself in a version of Ryzen (or Intel as well) 8-core CPU w\o SMT (8C\8T) when it comes time to upgrade the mobo, CPU platform in my box.

The way I'm starting to come down on all of this is.................

If games are going to still be written essentially single threaded or a single process generating multiple threads then they would be better served running under a Windows OS on a multi-core CPU that has more than 4 physical CPU cores on die w\o SMT then use CPU priority\core affinity to optimize the game threads running on the selected physical CPU cores thru Windows OS than allowing a Windows OS to try to optimize game threads running on same CPU platform w\ SMT enabled.

 :salute
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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2017, 06:29:38 AM »
There is not a lot which can be threaded in a game application.

Asynchronous applications can best take advantage of threading.  Most everything in a game is tied to an event.  Just an example, you pull the trigger, the audio then must synchronize with the firing of the rounds you see drawn on the screen. 

Think of what you are seeing, on the screen, and what has to be synchronized with what is going on in the frame and those things cannot be threaded.
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2017, 06:08:38 AM »
Some interesting reading..................

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-performance-negatively-affected-windows-10-scheduler-bug/

Please note that this AMD Ryzen is a 8-core CPU.....not a 4-core or less CPU.........designed using the SMP CPU core structure model..........
I have already noted on my box running w\ HT enabled that Windows will park all 6 "logical CPU cores" regardless of CPU load indicating that my Intel 6-core CPU is essentially not using HT (SMT).....even though HT was enabled in the UEFI so Windows knows this. This is why I would like to get hold of an Intel 8-core CPU to test.........my hunch is it will get the same treatment and thus is a somewhat red herring concerning an Intel CPU using more than 4 CPU cores under Windows OS under similar loads as this Ryzen CPU was placed...............

Here is some more reading...................... ......

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms686752(v=vs.85).aspx

This service is not enabled by default in Windows OS for power saving intentions. When this service is enabled it does a better job of ensuring that threads are processed\executed along in proper order but does cause a CPU to consume a little more power so the windows system scheduler is used by default. I have enabled this service in my Win 7 HP SP1 OS and haven't noted anywhere of any issues w\ my CPU but I have noted thru the GPU frametime graphs that the graph line did smooth out better w\ this enabled vs not enabled....

This is what I have witnessed to date w\ my Intel 6-core CPU which is available on an Intel X99 platform only.......a similar platform structurally to AMD's X370 w\ a few differences................

I'm continually looking for any materials that conclusively disprove my findings but to date I haven't found any that do..............

 :salute
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Offline MADe

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2017, 11:43:09 PM »
There is not a lot which can be threaded in a game application.

Asynchronous applications can best take advantage of threading.  Most everything in a game is tied to an event.  Just an example, you pull the trigger, the audio then must synchronize with the firing of the rounds you see drawn on the screen. 

Think of what you are seeing, on the screen, and what has to be synchronized with what is going on in the frame and those things cannot be threaded.

yes
its about the cpu's speed, unfortunately they have hit the wall with GHz. Multi cores is a workaround..........
10GHz, single thread, would rock the game world, not possible.

Good for AMD tho, kick Intel in the arse. giddy up
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2017, 02:42:09 PM »
Here is a good article done by PcPer's Allyn Malventano on the AMD Ryzen CPU & the Windows 10 scheduler:

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/AMD-Ryzen-and-Windows-10-Scheduler-No-Silver-Bullet

This testing work shows to clearly debunk the Win 10 scheduler bug issue (which is essentially the same scheduler as used in Win 7 & 8.1), but at the same time this work also clearly shows the potential advantages of using CPU priority\affinity to optimize this Ryzen 7 1800X 8-core CPU in particular AND also Intel's I7 5960X 8-core CPU when HT\SMT is disabled when running lightly\medium threaded apps (such as most games) on them.

Note in the comments section post-article of a Ryzen user who has employed the use of Process Lasso w\ the 1800X that he's using and the interesting outcomes that this user is posting..............will have to research into that.

This also shows that w\ the AMD Ryzen 7 8-core CPU's the real bottleneck w\ games running on them w\ SMT enabled is the latency penalty incurred thru Windows scheduler switching threads across CPU cores that span across the CPU core CCX modules w\ SMT enabled......NOT across the individual CPU cores themselves within a CPU core CCX module w\ SMT enabled. In fact, the AMD Ryzen 7 1800X CPU cores themselves exhibit much better latency results w\ SMT enabled than Intel I7 5960X CPU cores do so once the CCX crossover latency issue is improved\resolved the AMD Ryzen 7 CPU's should show a much different outcome in gaming performance....for the better.

Note: If you also look closely at the testing on the Intel I7 5960X CPU this same potential is there to be had as well by disabling HT then applying CPU priority\affinity, even though the overall structure that Intel has used w\ the I7 5960X shows better overall latency performance vs AMD's Ryzen 7 1800X as currently configured when HT\SMT is enabled running lightly threaded loads under Win 10......until you take it down to the individual CPU cores themselves....

Testing using heavily threaded loads shows that this CCX module crossover latency issue pretty much goes away as Windows 10 scheduler tended to not switch threads to CPU cores across the CCX modules but kept them to the CPU cores within each CCX module (much like as in a NUMA model CPU)......thus Intel I7 5960X was beaten handily as then the Ryzen 1800X's superior CPU core latency performance came to bear....

Or you can get this performance right now w\ AMD Ryzen 7 CPU's if you disable SMT then apply CPU priority\affinity as needed to optimize said game threads & eliminate the CCX module crossover latency issue w\ a little CPU core OC thrown in if\as needed.......

This would be the configuration in which I'd use it..........thus why I posted earlier in this thread that I was more interested in an AMD Ryzen 7 8C\8T CPU on an X370 platform.............

From my testing w\ my Intel 6-core CPU I'll wager that you won't need to physically mess w\ the CPU clock speeds as well. I've found that once the CPU core usage on a multi-core CPU that has more than 4 physical CPU cores on die (both CPU priority\affinity) is optimized for the intended app to run optimally the CPU core clock speed was shown to not be near the influencer as once the GPU is fully & consistently fed the data needed for it to operate fully across all dimensions any extra CPU clock speed above this threshold was shown to be nothing more than a waste of power\energy for no extra performance gain. From finding this out I have reset my I7 5820K CPU back to the Auto sets in the UEFI (base 3.3Ghz-Turbo 3.5Ghz). I don't see any of this changing w\ these octa-core CPU's whether it's an Intel or AMD Ryzen CPU............

Here's a WCCFtech article where a reviewer did something w\ a Ryzen 1800X CPU where it was reconfigured into a 4C\8T configuration then tested against an Intel I7 7700K CPU w\ both CPU's set up to achieve a clock-to-clock, IPC-to-IPC, core-to-core test to try to get a look into what AMD would be coming to the table w\ the AMD Ryzen 3 series CPU's against Intel's I7 7700K Kaby Lake CPU:

http://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-4-core-benchmarks-intel-core-i7-7700k/

The work shown in these 2 articles has pretty much helped to validate the direction where my next platform upgrade is going........and all I'll need is a mobo\CPU combo..........for a LOT less money but no loss of performance!

 :salute
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Offline Bruv119

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2017, 05:42:44 PM »
I think i'm going to go with the ryzen 5, 6 core chip when it gets released providing it is cheap enough.
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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2017, 01:29:13 AM »
Dang Pudgie

Really appreciate all the time consuming research you have been sharing with the AH community!

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Offline Skuzzy

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2017, 12:57:29 PM »
Might want to read AMD's response to the scheduler issues.  They are saying there is no issue with the operating system thread scheduler.

https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/03/13/amd-ryzen-community-update

And some comparisons between Intel and AMD using an NVidia GTX1080Ti.: http://www.legitreviews.com/cpu-bottleneck-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-tested-on-amd-ryzen-versus-intel-kaby-lake_192585
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 01:00:22 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: AMD Ryzen CPU
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2017, 07:13:19 PM »
I have but 1 question. Well two really.

Is this going to be a big seller? And by big I mean big enough to compete with the big boys again? Not necessarily win. Just compete.
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