The Thing About AH3 Skinning That P(beeps) Me Off In 100 Words Or Less...

[Vraciu]

I am seriously about to bash my head into the monitor...

I managed to get a handle on AH2.  But this system REALLY has me at a loss...

Can anyone explain this to me?   Why do I even bother with making my panels look "variegated" when they get washed out?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   






CRIKEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[oboe]

Is the top one AH2 and the bottom AH3?  Or are they both AH3, one with shadows and one without?

I have a feeling the "washout" is cause by the intensity of AH3's sunlight.  Its not just skins - have you noticed sunlit cumulus clouds?  The detail disappears and the cloud bank becomes just a bright white mass.   

I found with the P-38 and P-51 I was working on, I had to darken the metal several shades as a start.  But that has drawbacks when viewing the non-sunlight side, or when the sun is behind clouds - the metal texture can then look too dark and blotchy.

I don't have a good understanding of graphics and 3D worlds and all the issues, tradeoffs, and even the correct terminology that should be used, but it seems to me like the light source for direct lighting (the sun) is far more powerful than it was in the past, and ambient lighting was either reduced or appears reduced in comparison.

A related (I think) problem I've noticed is that when I've achieved a good balance between the specularity (shininess/glare) and environmental (mirror reflections) effects in bright sunlight and my metal looks very believable to me as I pan across the skin and the sun angle changes - if I then go to the other side of the skin, the non-sunlight side, my specularity effects drop to zero and all that's left are the reflections, which makes the metal look more like glass.

I'm still early in the process and I haven't been able to experiment with the effect of Power map changes yet. 

[Vraciu]

Yeah one is with ALL LIGHTING and one is without.   Both AH3. 

So the intensity is just higher...   Okay. 

I don't want to darken them because of the obvious drawbacks but I may have no choice.   

[hitech]

If that top image is no lighting then your diffuse image is far to bright.

HiTech

[Vraciu]

If that top image is no lighting then your diffuse image is far to bright.

HiTech

Yes, the top image is no lighting.   Are you saying I should darken the whole thing or just the NMF portions?   

[Skuzzy]

The bare aluminum seems too light.  It's almost like you are trying to paint the skin like you see them on the runway, or in the air, which is the incorrect approach.  Aluminum is actually a fairly dark gray.  It is the reflections and light that make it look lighter.

The goal is to paint the skin the actual color and let the light engine do the rest.  Like painting a car.  You buy the red paint and put it on the car and it may look different in the lights or in the shadows than it did when it was in the can.

[Vraciu]

The bare aluminum seems too light.  It's almost like you are trying to paint the skin like you see them on the runway, or in the air, which is the incorrect approach.  Aluminum is actually a fairly dark gray.  It is the reflections and light that make it look lighter.

The goal is to paint the skin the actual color and let the light engine do the rest.  Like painting a car.  You buy the red paint and put it on the car and it may look different in the lights or in the shadows than it did when it was in the can.

I totally understand what you are getting at--good analogy. My skins used to be too gray.  I think I overcompensated in the wrong direction.   I still don't quite grasp what the Power, Spec, and Environment maps actually do.   I had a good grasp of the Bump and Spec maps on the old system and how to manipulate them to get the effect I wanted (I figured it out just before AH3 came out unfortunately--day late, dollar short) but that doesn't quite translate here directly.

I can do the OD skins.  That's easy.  NMF...not so much.

Back to work on it.   I will definitely keep trying.  Thanks for the help.   

[Vraciu]

Here's my base layer.  The screenshots are not exactly the same as I have tweaked some of the layers in this image.

Maybe this will give folks something to comment on as to what I am screwing up.

(And before Greebo brings it up *AGAIN* LOL...this file has 15 layers.)

[Devil 505]

Have you tried adding a panel line and rivet line shading layer? I believe I told you about how to make one in the past. Make a new layer just above the noise layers. Take your airbrush tool and trace over all the panel lines and rivets with a dark brown or black color. Go heavy on the panels lines and softer over the rivets and avoid making perfectly strait lines. You are looking for random variances in waviness and thickness over a single line.

It should look like this at 100% opacity:


Then gaussian blur the layer until the edges of the rivet portions can't be seen. At that point, adjust the opacity of the layer until you can just barely make out the shading.

[Vraciu]

I only have the highlight layer.   

Let me try this technique.  I'm a visual learner to be sure.

[Vraciu]

The bare aluminum seems too light.  It's almost like you are trying to paint the skin like you see them on the runway, or in the air, which is the incorrect approach.  Aluminum is actually a fairly dark gray.  It is the reflections and light that make it look lighter.

The goal is to paint the skin the actual color and let the light engine do the rest.  Like painting a car.  You buy the red paint and put it on the car and it may look different in the lights or in the shadows than it did when it was in the can.

So, what drives the variation, the skin or the spec maps?

Could I theoretically have an all-gray base layer with a mottled spec and environment map to get good results?

[Devil 505]

So, what drives the variation, the skin or the spec maps?

Could I theoretically have an all-gray base layer with a mottled spec and environment map to get good results?

Not really. You still need to bake in all of your detail. I personally think it matters more on bare metal. I've been experimenting with the maps and have found a good way for getting dull metal: Medium-high Spec. Extremely low Power and Low Environment. You need a base color of a medium to dark gray/blue.

[Vraciu]

Not really. You still need to bake in all of your detail. I personally think it matters more on bare metal. I've been experimenting with the maps and have found a good way for getting dull metal: Medium-high Spec. Extremely low Power and Low Environment. You need a base color of a medium to dark gray/blue.

So you're gonna like....share?    Duh.  Lol

[Devil 505]

Some quick and dirty screenshots.




Base color layer is RGB 119/119/133. I made a gray and white mottle layer which lightens the total tone of the metal. I also bumped up the opacity of the panel lines and rivets to about double what I've been using for painted surfaces. My regular noise layers were reduced by 1% each. All other weathering layers are the same as with painted skins.

Metal tones in the Spec maps are as follows:

_E: 29/29/29
_P: 9/9/9
_S: 158/158/158

I still want to experiment with subtle changes in those values for individual panels and for the mottle - I figure the lighter areas should be duller.

[Vraciu]

My hero!!!   Good stuff.