Spec/Power/Environment Adventures

[Vraciu]

So, I'm revising my old skins to give myself a break from bashing my head into the monitor on these two D Ponies of mine...

Can anyone tell by looking here what I've done differently between these two and what needs to be adjusted?    I always take my screenshots without shadows so you can see the details.   Not even sure why I mention that...

Any way...

[Devil 505]

Which is(are) the before pic(s)? Why are there 2 different planes?

[Vraciu]

Which is(are) the before pic(s)? Why are there 2 different planes?

They are different skins.   I used different techniques with each trying to see how the maps behave. 

[Vraciu]

Does the skin viewer care if shadows are enabled or disabled in the game?

[Devil 505]

First, guessing games are annoying.

Second, your not giving us a clear baseline. Read up on the scientific method and the necessity of constants and controls. There is nothing constant across these 3 pictures other than the 3D model. Pick only one skin and only one way of showing it, either in game or in the skin viewer.

Does the skin viewer care if shadows are enabled or disabled in the game?

No idea about the skin viewer, but the film viewer will always uses the current game settings you used when playing.

[Vraciu]

First, guessing games are annoying.

Second, your not giving us a clear baseline. Read up on the scientific method and the necessity of constants and controls. There is nothing constant across these 3 pictures other than the 3D model. Pick only one skin and only one way of showing it, either in game or in the skin viewer.

No idea about the skin viewer, but the film viewer will always uses the current game settings you used when playing.

I'm not trying to compare identical skins.   I wanted input on them as they are--in contrast to one another.  (I'm not gonna' revise one or both only to have to go back and undo it.  Some changes in one cannot be undone on the top skin.   I want to be sure it's the right call before converting the second one.)

One is bluer...uses lighter shades of gray on the spec and e maps.   They use different base layer mottling, too, among other things. 

I was hoping that was somewhat obvious so I wouldn't have to bias the feedback.   

I have a Master's Degree.   I'm well aware of the scientific method.     It isn't possible here, unfortunately, nor would it help now any more than it has in the other thread where I'm as lost as I was when I started.   

I just want to know which one looks better--if that's possible--and what needs tweaking.


I figured as much on the film viewer.   I keep forgetting to turn shadows back on.  I disable them when playing.  They flicker and stutter too much on my system to bother with.   As a result my forgetfulness means my skin snapshots sometimes don't have shadows.   Facepalm.

Doesn't matter any way.  As soon as Hitech sees these he will have the motivation he needs to revise the B object model.   

[Devil 505]

I like the darker gray and metal weathering in pic 1 and I like the paint weathering in the last one. It looks like your wings in pic 3 are too glossy based on the highlight on the inner leading edge.

[Vraciu]

I like the darker gray and metal weathering in pic 1 and I like the paint weathering in the last one. It looks like your wings in pic 3 are too glossy based on the highlight on the inner leading edge.

I thought for SURE you were gonna say not glossy enough. 

I feel like that Muppet who can't get the song right. 

At 0:40 - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RrJnzBFzEEY

I tend toward the darker also.   Glad you concur.   That idea came from something you said.   Glad it worked somewhat. 

[Vraciu]

Okay...this is becoming a fool's errand.

In some shots with the higher specularity level these skins look like they have a gel coating.     Was I not criticized on my P-51C for this very issue?

On another it is "not picking up much specularity".   Was I not "corrected" on that issue, also?

I think my original spec level looked better than any of these on the red nose.   I may have needed some tweaking to the POWER map but the SPEC map that was called "gray paint" looked more realistic than any of these as it struck a balance--and did not have a gel coating.

What am I missing here?   Pump up the spec and turn down the power?  Turn down both?





I am in no way bashing Cactus, either.   That guy forgot more about skinning than I'll *EVER* know.   




First the gray then the gel.  Note how much specularity it is *NOT* catching despite the brightness of the map.   Also note the squaring effect caused by the Normal Map converter.    This is a big issue that detracts/distracts from an excellent bit of artwork.









Now we have the gel coating...  I pumped my specularity up to try and accommodate what I thought Hitech was asking for.   The Default has the same problem, albeit partly mitigated by color tone (I think any way).







The bottom two shots clearly show the gel effect that comes with pumping up the specularity.



Now let's go back to my modified Red Nose which is what started this whole deal...   THIS DOES NOT have the gel effect and looks better to my eye for UNPOLISHED, UNPAINTED, possibly tarnished aluminum.   I need to tweak the COLORING some but I don't think specularity is the issue.   Certainly if it is then it is worth it to avoid the gelatinous look.







Also, my rivet details are easily noticed but not overpowered by the Normal Map which turns them into squares and rectangles.

[Fencer51]

Try throwing the maps I put up in that directory as see what it looks like.

[Vraciu]

Try throwing the maps I put up in that directory as see what it looks like.

The diffuse maps?

[Devil 505]

What we called "gray paint" was the end result of all the maps, not just the _S map.

As for the default Pony, the gel coat look is very much apparent and I believe is the result of the original _S map being copied to the _E or _P maps as well. This skin was originally an AH2 skin and converted by HTC. I downloaded the default P-51D and there are no _E or _P maps in the folder. I'd limit comparisons to the default skin to baked-in effects and detailing from here on out. The baked-in details are what makes the default look good, not the spec maps beyond general AH2 abilities.

[Devil 505]

Also, turn on your shadows and reflections for screenshots. It really does make a difference in spotting and correcting flaws.

[Vraciu]

What we called "gray paint" was the end result of all the maps, not just the _S map.

No, the "gray paint" was the original version.   We adjusted it based on your input to add some blue to the hue.  Then Skuzzy said it was "not picking up much specularity" so I increased that.  Now it looks like I flew it through paraffin. 

What needs to be adjusted to kill the gel look?

As for the default Pony, the gel coat look is very much apparent and I believe is the result of the original _S map being copied to the _E or _P maps as well. This skin was originally an AH2 skin and converted by HTC. I downloaded the default P-51D and there are no _E or _P maps in the folder. I'd limit comparisons to the default skin to baked-in effects and detailing from here on out. The baked-in details are what makes the default look good, not the spec maps beyond general AH2 abilities.

1) The Default is widely considered to be the creme de la creme of Mustangs in the game.   If it meets the standards being a converted AH2 skin then I don't see the problem with Horse's Itch, especially after Skuzzy's adjustments.    I also don't think the shine on the Red Nose (QP-J) was "off".   I think even you said so (though I could be wrong).


2) The issues with the normal map shown in the default are endemic to every skin in the game, including the B-29 Skuzzy was kind enough to create for us to show the effects of the maps.  (I wish he would pin that thread.)


Ultimately the changes I made to the NMF belly specularity on QP-J had a deleterious effect on the appearance of it overall.   If it did not come close to being worthy before I've since taken ten steps backwards.

So what to do?

[Vraciu]

Try throwing the maps I put up in that directory as see what it looks like.

Fencer, you want me to put them in *MY* directory not the default, correct?