Author Topic: Epiphany  (Read 491 times)

Offline 1stpar3

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Epiphany
« on: May 11, 2017, 04:36:20 AM »
I do a lot of long range shooting, so I was checking some data. POOF! I don't know why it slipped my mind until now as I constantly adjust the scope magnification to see how different loads would be effected by magnification changes. I was getting a bit frustrated about not being able to seem to hit any thing in AH. After seeing the way magnification worked for a Rifle, I realized that we are now a lot tighter in FOV. I know not exactly magnification but may act the same way. In using a scope and shooting at 300 yrds or more, your crosshairs are pointing at WAY different points as you zoom it in. So with that in mind, I tested it. YUP, works about the same. So if high magnification in scope makes for better shot placement,maybe I should change convergences. It made a big difference for me. I started doing this at end of April and noticed my hit percentages have doubled. I still fly the same, so pretty sure that isn't impacting on this. Check out Nikons Spot-on program and play around with how magnification changes where yo think your shots are going to hit. Oh and by the way...my convergences are 250 to a point :uhoh I know, 250 really?! Yup, really! Still get good hits out to around 425 ish so I don't feel the need to drastically change my flight habits. Check it out! Pretty confident that it would help you guys. :rock
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline nrshida

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2017, 05:11:51 AM »
What kind of shooting do you do in AH?


Better a bloody good fight and a loss than no fight at all.


The GFC

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 04:31:49 PM »
50 cals, 20mm hispanos :aok Should have specified "In real life" :rolleyes:  Point was, different magnifications of gun sights dramatically change ACTUAL aim points depending on magnification. Say you are shooting at 400 yards with your POV at 110 in game. If you keep every thing the same, sight,sight picture ect and change FOV to say 80 . Your bullet stream is not going to seem the same as it did at 110pov. Just like with a scoped rifle. Crosshairs dead on center at 4 power in a gun vise, then turn up the power to 9x you will see that your TRUE aim point is now no longer on dead center. With the depth perception change with VR and the fixed POV I found I was having some accuracy issues. My sight picture was different as the "Magnification" and other variables had changed. I couldn't use the same sight picture and expect my shots to be the same. Its all a perception thing really. Its easier to shoot at distance under less magnification,less sight wobble, wider sight picture and other things BUT accuracy is not as spot on as with higher magnification.    There were other issues as a result of Vr as well. Tracers and hit sprites were harder to see,made it harder to walk in a bullet stream(yes sometimes its necessary). So I applied what I do in long distance shooting. Changed my ZERO point(convergence) from dead on 400 yrds to 250 yrds. Since my magnification had changed the 400 yrd zero POINT was different on target than at lower magnification. Now I am able to use the added inherent accuracy of the magnification to make more accurate shots. Most planes I fly are wing mounted guns, and a longer convergence up close combined with the difference of magnification at shorter ranges was throwing me off.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 04:34:15 PM by 1stpar3 »
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 04:43:07 PM »
It worked miracles for me :uhoh YMMV. Just putting my findings out there. Have seen a lot of comments about accuracy suffering and was having the same problems. If you don't think it may help, don't try it. It helped me, as I stated earlier, my hit% has more than doubled. With out changing anything but convergence. My new convergence works better with my old sight picture, simple as that. Just tried to explain WHY I reached that conclusion :cheers:
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline nrshida

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2017, 01:02:44 AM »
50 cals, 20mm hispanos :aok Should have specified "In real life" :rolleyes: 

I understood your original explanation. I was asking what kind of shooting you did in AH to make such a close analogy to "real-world" rifle shooting. Not which virtual calibres you used.


Better a bloody good fight and a loss than no fight at all.


The GFC

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2017, 03:04:29 AM »
Right ,its hard to judge comments as there isn't that face to face interaction. :rock As to my shooting in AH, I had my convergences at 400 to a point. I ran an 110fov since I started playing. It seemed that this distance worked better with my gun sight and my sight picture. I ran in the upper mid 2% hit percentage. Now in vr, we have a fixed FOV of 90 I believe? That's a pretty substantial change in magnification. Well magnification may not be the correct term but to me it seems to have the same effect. Since I was having difficulties registering the same performance of my shooting,, I treated it like I would in real life. Change my "zero", its a  ballistics thing, since now I have magnification to deal with and have a more precise impact zone. Previously with my 400 convergence, I was usually shooting higher/lower than what my sight picture told me. No problem back then as I could see tracers and change my aim. So my thinking was,since my sights with higher magnification would give more precise accuracy, I adjusted convergences to take advantage of it. I was skeptical about this at first but was pleasantly surprised at the results.  I don't usually take a lot of snap shots or deflection shots. I am more a saddle up kind of guy.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 03:21:18 AM by 1stpar3 »
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 04:35:07 AM »
Just like with a scoped rifle. Crosshairs dead on center at 4 power in a gun vise, then turn up the power to 9x you will see that your TRUE aim point is now no longer on dead center.

Nope. Scopes do not work like that. You've either got a crappy scope or you are confusing the scopes parallax with the aim point.

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2017, 03:01:04 AM »
What? Ok, the no longer dead center was a miss speak sort of. True you would still be in the same proximity but at a more precise location in your aiming point.  No, I do this all the time and am fully aware of parallax effects and Coriolis effects as well. You don't have to believe me, look it up. I may be explaining it wrong, but magnification plays a dramatic role in aim point/impact. Say we take Brit 303 with an 200 yrd zero and target distance of 400 yrds. The first circle on a Nikon BDC reticle shows impact(when aiming with that circle) of 374 yards at 3 power. Now crank up the magnification to 9x and you get an impact point with same circle at 264yrds. That obviously means that with greater magnification you would get a more accurate result. Don't have to believe me,look it up for yourself. We may be getting crossed up with our terminology but I definitely know what I am talking about.Your grouping on a target gets a lot tighter when your aim point is more defined. I don't use cheap any thing with my range time and have been doing this since I was a wee lad. My Grandfather had me doing calculation for distance shooting at the age 0f 10. Pretty sure that I was the only kid in 7th grade that loved Physics and Trigonometry.  :salute Teaching my Grandson,now. He is a bit young for the Trig stuff as he is only 5. Sort of had to speed the timing up a bit so that I could do it while I still can.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 03:23:44 AM by 1stpar3 »
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline Vulcan

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2017, 07:46:36 AM »
Sure, off center drops change as you are zooming in and out - unless it is a FFP scope. But the cross hairs don't.

If your rifle is zero'd at 100m, it doesn't matter if you are looking at 3x or 9x the center point/cross hair stays the same. Drop points change as your calculation on drops is multiplied by the zoom difference. The cross hair difference is 0, anything x 0 = 0. ie. no change.

I think your getting confused with lead, although the good shots tend to lead by x plane lengths, so once again zoom/fov has little effect.

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2017, 03:17:10 PM »
Right, sort of. Yes you are correct. The point I was trying to make is this. The environmentals have changed with VR. Doing things as you did in 2D may not smoothly transfer over with some changes. I realize that to some my example seemed off. It was an EXAMPLE basic one at that. I wasn't trying to throw my knowledge at someone to boost my ego. I used my experiences and a third party app, to show WHY I made a certain change to MY environment. Simple as that.   Yes, we don't shoot static targets in AH,thank you I wasn't aware lol Yes lead has a lot to do with it as well. I know very well that the "GOOD STICKS" have their lead pretty much figured out. Now put them in VR and see if they don't go through a transition stage where the way they USE to do it just doesn't seem to work as IT USE TO.     Yes zero at 100 the crosshairs still pointing at target at 100 yrds. I wasn't saying that it wouldn't be. I was trying to illustrate the difference in sight picture. I have rifle zeroed at 250 yrds I have a barn 400 yards. Knowing where my rifle shoots and where to aim my rifle for a accurate hit at 400 yards is imperative. NOW magnify the scene (like going from 2d AH to VRAH) Sure I will still be aimed at the barn, but my sight picture has changed. Not a problem as long as all my shots are at said barn at said distance. BUT AH isn't like that. So I offered a simple example of what I did and why I did it. Simple, we can discus the virtues of optics and environmental impacts all day long, not what I was getting at. We don't shoot static long range rifles in AH so I wasn't going to get in the weeds to explain it. I didn't explain it in depth, how many on this forum would even have a clue what I was talking about,other than you. I took it a bit more personal than I should have, but I took your comment as saying I was an Idiot and don't know what I am saying. If it wasn't meant that way ,great. True, the physics and the math never change in real life. We know all the changes that could cause problems and have figured out those situations long time ago. Its a bit different going from 2D to VR. The way you use to judge things needs to change because the perspective has changed. SAME math, but DIFFRENT paper,pencil, eraser, protractor ect ect
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 04:01:46 PM by 1stpar3 »
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline FLS

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2017, 03:54:16 PM »
In other words it takes a little time to adjust to VR.  :aok

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2017, 04:02:14 PM »
YUP A wee bit lol :x
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2017, 04:14:51 PM »
Right KISS keep it simple stupid :x Slipped a bit too much tongue in on that one :kiss:
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline FLS

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2017, 05:21:06 PM »
At first I was hitting a lot of trees I thought I'd miss. High speed passes through hangers helped me with the different perspective.

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: Epiphany
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2017, 12:42:35 AM »
Right, no trees in hangers though. lol Oh so went from hitting trees to interior walls of hangers :O I do like the depth you get in VR, can see how the trees are staggered. Makes it easier, they don't look as much like a solid line now. Changing my color palette help out a lot as well. The bright returns from white to yellow surfaces diminished a lot. Not as blinding now :banana:
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain