Author Topic: Flak88 Shootin  (Read 1444 times)

Offline Vantec

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Flak88 Shootin
« on: June 07, 2017, 06:50:44 PM »
Gentlemen,

Im finding myself jumping in 88mm for base defenses and bomber attacks and having bit of trouble. Anybody have some advise for successfully using an 88 to its max potential? Some questions I have are things like what is its maximum effective range? How far do you have to lead a target? Are there specific arcs I should focus on for certain distances?

I am finding it hard to tell if getting shells near the target or even hitting them, seems like its mostly a guess based of what puffy is doing.
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Offline hgtonyvi

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Re: Flak88 Shootin
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2017, 06:57:12 PM »
Not another man ack..... :mad:

Offline bustr

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Re: Flak88 Shootin
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2017, 09:27:42 PM »
It's not lead like with the 37mm, it's time of travel to something like 5k when the fuse is set for 5k when it explodes. Then it's the trajectory of if you have to elevate to lob it to that position in front of the con.

If you see a con 7k away traveling at an angle slightly off from you towards your direction, you have to account for how far it will travel in a certain amount of time. Then set your fuse say for the 7k con to about 6.5k and shoot to lob the round in front of the con so the con fly's to where the round will detonate. If the con is traveling away from you, same thing but you add more distance than the con is and lob past the con.

5k in to 2k is where your lobbing has the least amount of arc in it and you are making faster adjustments. If a con is traveling at you, when it is at 2-2.2k you need your fuse set to 1.5k to account for the closing con. When they are traveling say left to right of your position, their range from you will not change as rapidly and your concern will then be elevation and lobbing far enough ahead like lead shooting.

You can learn the arc from 5k out to about 7k by putting up the offline target with some azimuth to it to get it up in the air.

.target range heading azimuth

Example: .target 5000 360 15

Heading north, target at 5000yards at about 15 degrees up from your line of sight.

Getting an idea of how to lob rounds 5k and past is necessary but, once you start throwing out rounds, you can self correct watching the detonation smoke.

bustr - POTW 1st Wing


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Offline bozon

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Re: Flak88 Shootin
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2017, 02:35:57 AM »
The best way to use the 88 is to open the text radio and type ".ef", hit enter key, then grab a fighter.

Also 88s should lose the laser range finder. Range tags should be at 1.0 (1000 yards) accuracy (i.e. rounded) at short ranges and 2.0 accuracy at ranges over 6k.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Flak88 Shootin
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2017, 03:57:22 AM »
The best way to use the 88 is to open the text radio and type ".ef", hit enter key, then grab a fighter.

 :rofl :aok

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Offline JimmyD3

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Re: Flak88 Shootin
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2017, 09:29:24 AM »
The best way to use the 88 is to open the text radio and type ".ef", hit enter key, then grab a fighter.

Also 88s should lose the laser range finder. Range tags should be at 1.0 (1000 yards) accuracy (i.e. rounded) at short ranges and 2.0 accuracy at ranges over 6k.

 :rofl :rofl

BTW the Strat Puffy ack needs to be more accurate. :neener:
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Offline bustr

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Re: Flak88 Shootin
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2017, 01:35:27 PM »
The best way to use the 88 is to open the text radio and type ".ef", hit enter key, then grab a fighter.

Also 88s should lose the laser range finder. Range tags should be at 1.0 (1000 yards) accuracy (i.e. rounded) at short ranges and 2.0 accuracy at ranges over 6k.

Hey at least I didn't tell him if he downloads "gunnery" from the custom terrain on the Free tab, offline I setup 88's in several places so he can practice against the drones out to 7k. Or that he can spawn a wirbel up onto the mesa next to the runway and practice against the drones as close as 800. I still have to update the file with the latest version that has the battleships in it to practice with the 16in.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: Flak88 Shootin
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2017, 04:19:27 PM »
Hey at least I didn't tell him if he downloads "gunnery" from the custom terrain on the Free tab, offline I setup 88's in several places so he can practice against the drones out to 7k. Or that he can spawn a wirbel up onto the mesa next to the runway and practice against the drones as close as 800. I still have to update the file with the latest version that has the battleships in it to practice with the 16in.
That was exactly what I was looking for(when I saw your reply) :eek: But NO,thats not what you did. Proud of you BUSTR :neener: It does help though,your gunnery terrain set-up :old:
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Offline Kingpin

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Re: Flak88 Shootin
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2017, 08:04:58 PM »
Anybody have some advise for successfully using an 88 to its max potential?

My first tip is to learn to use the C and V keys to adjust the burst range of the 88 flak round.   Get a good feel for how much C and V adjusts range with a single tap or two.  This will allow you to make small adjustments while mostly keeping your eyes on the target so you can focus on their aspect change and closure rate.

You can start to practice this with the Offline Drones, especially using Bustr’s Gunnery Terrain.  That’s a great way to start with any new weapon, vehicle or aircraft.  Just be aware that drones only fly at 200 mph in a predictable circle, so this will be a very basic step.  However, this first step can be helpful as you progress toward faster targets with greater closure rates.


Some questions I have are things like what is its maximum effective range?

I believe the round is effective out to 10K.  The tricky thing about the 88 is that you have to really “think ahead” to where your target will be when your round gets there.   This means you really have to factor in the time of flight of your rounds and get your shots out in front of the bombers.  So, longer shots are exponentially more difficult.   For me personally, I would define the ranges as follows:

Close Range:  1.5K to 3.5K = easy with some practice
Medium Range: 3.5 to 6.5K = moderately hard but effective with some practice
Long Range:  6.5-10K = quite difficult, even for level targets, depending on aspect rate of change

That said, I engage bombers at around 7K with the 88 and regularly hit them at around 5-6K range.

The method would I suggest learning with is based on the “ambush method” of gunnery rather than “tracking” the target the whole time with constant fire and adjustments.  The ambush method requires more patience, but can yield better results than trying to follow the target with your gun.   (See more on the ambush method below).


Are there specific arcs I should focus on for certain distances?

Yes,  learning the ballistic arc for different ranges and elevations will be helpful.  Even more importantly learning (or getting a feel for) the time of the 88 rounds take at various ranges is key.  (Someone posted a chart of that once and I think I have a printed copy, but I can’t locate it to link to at the moment.  If I do, I will add it to this thread.)

If you can learn some “sweet spots” where you feel you can visually calculate the fall of the round and have a feel for the time of flight, then you can start using the ambush method at longer ranges.  For me this starts between 6-7K.  So, I try to spot bombers and begin lining up my shots by at least by 8K distance.


How far do you have to lead a target?

Depending on the range you start engaging the bombers and their closure rate, your firing range needs to be around 1K closer (less) than where the bombers are when you fire.  Again, this is a general estimate and is entirely based on range and closure rate.  The faster they are closing, the more range you need to subtract.  Further away the target, the more you need to subtract due to round flight time.  If they are slow bombers, or are at more of an off angle, or as the range decreases, the less range you need to subtract when you fire.

With regard to lead, it is also a good idea to learn to use zoom toggling, so you can zoom in to better judge the aspect angle of the bombers at distance and then zoom out to adjust your range and lead.

How I use the ambush method: 

I like to start engaging the bombers by 6-7K out.  So, I want to spot them and have the gun traversed the right way by the time they 8K (distance from the gun, not alt).  Don’t expect to get hits at that range initially, but it is good place to start engaging as it gives you lots of time to adjust.

It that point I will zoom in to better see the bombers’ aspect angle.  Let’s say they are 8K away and appear angled toward the town.   I will set my range at around 6 to 6.5K and traverse the gun to place the gun reticle above and ahead of the their direction of flight.  I want to do this before their range is 1K further away than my firing range.   For a 6K shot with some off angle on average speed bombers,  I need to be firing rounds well before the bombers are at 7K range. 

I start by putting a couple rounds down range, so I can adjust my fire  into their flight path.  The 88 has some recoil that alters your aim point, so that is something you need to get used to adjusting as you practice.  If the bombers are already closer than 7K, then I adjust to a closer range than 6K.

As the bombers approach my flak bursts at 6k, I zoom in again to get a better look at their aspect angle and how close my rounds are.  If I don’t get hits at 6K, then I “leapfrog” ahead to a closer range, like 4.5K, and again set up my shot ahead of the bombers.   Again, these range adjustments are based entirely on the angle and closure speed of the bombers.  The less closure speed, the more time you have to fire and adjust.  If the range decrease is slow, then you can make your adjustments in smaller increments.  If the bombers are Tu-2s flying directly toward the field, you will need to set your range even closer and make bigger adjustments.  So, take the type of bombers, their speed and aspect all into account as you plan your aiming ranges and adjustments.

If your flak bursts are ahead of the bombers when they reach your designated range, then your angle of lead is too much.  Reduce that angle as they close.  If the bursts are behind the bombers as they reach your designated range, then you didn’t use enough lead angle for that range.  You can adjust a little, but keep in mind the closer the bombers are, the less you need to lead them, because the flight time of your rounds decreases. So even if your lead angle puts shots slightly behind them with your first shots, sometimes the same lead angle will work on your next shots.  Again, this all depends on aspect angle.  Bombers coming straight at you are a different animal.

As you can see, the key to the ambush method is planning, patience and practice.  Give yourself time to fire ahead of your target, both in terms of range and angle.

As you get better at this, you can transition into tracking shots, where you make more frequent adjustments and only fire a few shots at each range, adjusting more in an attempt to keep your bursts on target.  This takes time and practice, which is why I recommend starting with the ambush method and working from there.

Good luck.  Hope some of these tips help.


p.s. I want to point out that the skills acquired or applied in effective use of manned guns also apply to air-to-air combat.  I therefore try to describe my methods in terms that are more universal (closure rate, aspect angle, lead angle, etc.) with the hopes that those who use the guns on the ground know they can apply these things universally (on the ground and in the air).  On a personal note, my ability with the ground guns, especially vs. porkers, de-ackers and vulchers (read: fighters), where judging energy, thinking ahead of the opponent and predicting maneuvers is very helpful, comes from many years in WB and AH spent in fighters focusing mostly on air-to-air combat.  These and many other skills in this game are interchangeable and I encourage everyone to explore as many of them as they like.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 08:21:04 PM by Kingpin »
Quote from: bozon
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Offline Blooz

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Re: Flak88 Shootin
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2017, 03:54:00 PM »
Also 88s should lose the laser range finder. Range tags should be at 1.0 (1000 yards) accuracy (i.e. rounded) at short ranges and 2.0 accuracy at ranges over 6k.



This guy in the FLAK crew gives them the exact range. That's the range finder he's looking through.
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Offline bozon

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Re: Flak88 Shootin
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2017, 09:20:21 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)
This guy in the FLAK crew gives them the exact range. That's the range finder he's looking through.
He is giving them A range, not the exact range.
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs