Author Topic: To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?  (Read 1670 times)

Offline Randy1

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To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?
« on: June 14, 2017, 03:27:29 PM »
Several AH players have asked me online about VR.  Not easy to answer on the VOX.

I had spent several weeks using VR.  I got an abrasion on my forehead so I switched back to regular AH with TrackIR for a week.  This made for an interesting, comparative test. 

A quick thanks to HTC.  They went out of their way to make switching back and forth between VR and regular AH very simple. Things like head position and game sound setting are now saved in different file names so if you change one say in VR, it does not mess up the same setting in regular AH.  There are several other features HTC has provided that makes playing in VR easy.  Like regular AH, there is a learning curve but it is fairly easy to grasp once you get the basics.

When donning a VR headset for the first time, you will be disappointed in the clarity of the graphics.  Everyone agrees with that.  No sense steering you away from the lack of clarity issue but there is more to the story than that initial disappointment.  You get use to the somewhat, fuzzy graphics.  Much like living next to a train track I would guess.  Sooner or latter you just don't hear the train any more.

When I switched back to AH with TrackIR, I was taken with the clarity of everything outside the cockpit.  Inside the cockpit, it is disappointing without the full 3D experience of VR.  The VR, 3D field is striking and near real life size.  Especially so in the updated planes and GVs.  My best comparison between VR and regular AH is the cockpit of a P-47.  There is a small gap behind the dash board of a P-47 if you look closely in regular AH.  In VR, that gap is huge.  Maybe large enough to put a pony keg.  The B17 is just pure neat.

Air to air combat is a high hurdle when going from TrackIR to VR.  On the other hand, those, that switched from a hat switch view to VR had little or no problem.  TrackIR, as many have reported, is just that good.  Now VR head tracking is just as good in the front 180 degree but to look full back or full up, you need the aid of a hat switch.  Often I lose a player in the rear view or steer the wrong way when using VR after years of using TrackIR.  Now if can get a good turn so I am tracking for a shot, the VR shines.  Hopefully, someday, VR will act more like TrackIR when looking to the rear and upper views.

Shooting is two different worlds when comparing VR to regular AH.  Gun and canon shooting whether plane or GV is where VR really shines.  When I switched to regular AH, I missed the full scale, VR shooting the most of all. The full scale of the shooting situation is just fantastic even with less than sharp graphics.  There is an one exception here.  For some reason, the head position is like on the handles of a top mounted 50 cal like on an M4.  No amount of head position change can fix that.

Bombing is way different in VR play.  It does take getting use too because of the scale, view change is different.  I drop my ords say as an example on a fighter hanger by the size and aim point on the gunsight.  They look different so you have to practice your VR drops to get to where you were in regular AH.  Judging the attack angle is a bit more of a challenge in VR some say and I think they are right.  Lack of TrackIR like viewing very much hurts finding that GV under a tree then keeping it insight while you clover leaf for the drop.

How long can you play using VR?  Pretty much as long as you want once you get use to VR.  Your face can get hot.  A fan blowing on your face fixes that.  If I want to plan a day session and night session like on a weekend then I use regular AH for one session and VR for the next albeit you could do both.

In conclusion, after a week using regular AH with TrackIR, I was glad to get back to the VR.  It is now my first choice.

I hope this helps someone contemplating a VR purchase.




Offline Vulcan

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Re: To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2017, 04:11:32 PM »
Good write up. I agree on the view scaling, pre-official VR support I used freetracknoir for my headsets - and scaled the views to about 90:120 (so looking to my right was more like looking back over my right shoulder). I've bugged HTC to support VR rotation scaling for ages.

That said going from VR rotation scaling to use the hatswitch to look behind I did notice I had better SA on my 6 - however the trade off was confusion when releasing the 6 view. I would go from looking at a bandit crossing into my 5 to 3 o'clock to looking at my 11 o'clock. I think this is the bit most people don't like. It is not natural and quite annoying.

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2017, 04:35:11 PM »
Well put, Randy! Another big help with VR, with latest patch HTC has fixed an issue with seeing bullet strikes in VR. For a lot of folk, that was a big game changing problem. For me, VR seems that I am flying by feel. Its almost instinctual feeling? Like you are there in some ways. If swapping from 2D AH to VR, my first tip would be: How well do you deal with change? It IS different and the same, I know thanks for clearing that up. What I mean is, there will be aspects of the VR that you will like more than 2d version, and some you may loathe. If you handle change pretty well and are willing to give it a chance, I say go for it. It is quite pricey and not for everyone, and you cant really get the full experience with a border line setup/computer. In that situation, I would wait for VR to improve a bit more. I love playing either version and I don't really have one single aspect of play that would lead me to having a favorite. :cheers:
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline terrydew

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Re: To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2017, 08:08:07 AM »
Good write up. I agree on the view scaling, pre-official VR support I used freetracknoir for my headsets - and scaled the views to about 90:120 (so looking to my right was more like looking back over my right shoulder). I've bugged HTC to support VR rotation scaling for ages.

That said going from VR rotation scaling to use the hatswitch to look behind I did notice I had better SA on my 6 - however the trade off was confusion when releasing the 6 view. I would go from looking at a bandit crossing into my 5 to 3 o'clock to looking at my 11 o'clock. I think this is the bit most people don't like. It is not natural and quite annoying.

I also used freetracknoir in the dk2 days but could never get used to anything other than very mild curves. However almost all vr users complain about the restrictions due to fov and no eye movement. I have suggested a automatic relative offset that would be fixed and not adjustable as freetracknoir but HTC thought we already had that with the hat switch control.
I have no idea the effort required but I do think some form of head movement adjustment should be added to AH with a switch to turn it off for those that don't want to use it. I think HiTech sounded open to something if we can convince him.
If the folks at Trackir were smart, they would sell a version of their software that would pick up the VR signals so developers could use existing implementations.

Terry

Offline Randy1

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Re: To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2017, 02:58:51 PM »
I emailed the guy at TrackIR.  His reply suggested nothing is in the works.  That was about a month ago.

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2017, 11:41:46 PM »
Yup, same discovery here! I do believe that as far as dedicated flight sim/ combat sims, Aces High's use of hat switches and save head positions is the only game that lets you do this? LUCKY US! I love DCS, but its hard on the neck in VR. Great game for "Chair Yoga",Bustrs name for it, but not so great for comfortable game play. Who needs exercise,right? Too busy on AH for any of that nonsense anyway!! :devil
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline Randy1

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Re: To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2017, 02:13:05 PM »
I wonder if the hat switch view could be separate from the VR view?  That is when you hit the look back button, you would have input from the head position camera.  It would be just like a rear view in regular AH.  Might really suck too.

Offline Vulcan

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Re: To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2017, 03:14:05 PM »
If the folks at Trackir were smart, they would sell a version of their software that would pick up the VR signals so developers could use existing implementations.

Terry

But there is already OpenTrack (sorry it was opentrack I used last): https://github.com/opentrack/opentrack/releases

(note I already tried this instead of the AH native and AH overrides it).

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2017, 11:49:09 PM »
I wonder if the hat switch view could be separate from the VR view?  That is when you hit the look back button, you would have input from the head position camera.  It would be just like a rear view in regular AH.  Might really suck too.
You lost me here, Randy. It works the same for me as in 2d AH. Lookback is rearview. lean left to look around right side of head rest ect. May have mis interpreted :old:
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain

Offline Randy1

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Re: To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2017, 02:55:34 PM »
You lost me here, Randy. It works the same for me as in 2d AH. Lookback is rearview. lean left to look around right side of head rest ect. May have mis interpreted :old:

I have a tendency to look around when in a different view as i would with Trackir.  That means when I let go f the hatsitch I am looking a different way.  Bombing GVs is the biggest problem

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2017, 03:02:10 PM »
Yup,figured that. I changed my TIR profile to mimic the VR. So that when not in VR I still have to make same hat switch uses to see behind me. Muscle memory thing. Was taking too long to adjust by using TIR in between VR sessions. I did have to adjust my target approaches for VR, as of now its pretty dialed in. I bomb**** in Spit16, 250lbrs no 1000 lbrs needed lol
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Offline FLS

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Re: To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2017, 11:03:02 AM »
Yup,figured that. I changed my TIR profile to mimic the VR. So that when not in VR I still have to make same hat switch uses to see behind me. Muscle memory thing. Was taking too long to adjust by using TIR in between VR sessions. ...

Good idea!

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: To VR, or not to VR, that is the question?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2017, 02:05:39 PM »
Good idea!
Thanks FLS. It does happen, RARELY, but happens :O Now I have a witness  :x
"Life is short,break the rules,forgive quickly,kiss slowly,love truly,laugh uncontrollably,and never regret anything that made you smile."  “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”- Mark Twain