F-35 at Paris Air show

[nrshida]

See Rule #4

[icepac]

Time will tell.

[ACE]

As a outsider who doesn't know much about aircraft I can gather all these opinions from you guys. It's pretty clear they have spent WAY TO MUCH money. That is all.

[Arlo]

It's pretty clear they have spent WAY TOO MUCH money. That is all.

True dat.



For my own perspective I looked up aircraft by the cost in USD then put them in descending order.



I think this would be a good basis for a 'fantasy football' style game, once we all agree on their specific combat capabilities (yes, even the trainers and attack craft).

[nrshida]

The two charts conflict Arlo. Presumably the picture chart is featuring the F-35A? The graph shows the F-35B to be nearly 50% more expensive is that accurate?

"In 2011, Lockheed Martin executive vice president Tom Burbage and former Pentagon director of operational testing Tom Christie stated that most program delays were due to the F-35B, which forced massive redesigns of other versions".

"USMC Lt. Gen. Robert Schmidle has said that the vertical lift components would only be used "a small percentage of the time" to transfer the aircraft from carriers to land bases".

"Lockheed Martin Vice President Steve O’Bryan has said that most F-35B landings will be conventional to reduce stress on vertical lift components. These conventional mode takeoffs and landings cause an "unacceptable wear rate" to the aircraft's "poorly designed" tires".

"The Marines plan to use the F-35B from "unimproved surfaces at austere bases" but with "special, high-temperature concrete designed to handle the heat".

  You can't make this s*** up! 

[Arlo]

The two charts conflict Arlo. Presumably the picture chart is featuring the F-35A? The graph shows the F-35B to be nearly 50% more expensive is that accurate?

They do - they do. I have no idea, at all (well, I'm honest). Apparently 'fantasy fighter conflict' may take some time. The potential player base is very demanding and the 'players' have little 'game time' to build true stats (thankfully, if you think about it).

[nrshida]

See Rule #2

[Gman]

Interesting video on the F35(b mostly).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B30EHgj_ikFIOTlEeGh6UHFPOTQ/view

[Brooke]

$150M-$250M per aircraft . . .

Anything less than $1 trillion these days is akin to trivial pocket change.

[Nefarious]

True dat.

(Image removed from quote.)

For my own perspective I looked up aircraft by the cost in USD then put them in descending order.

(Image removed from quote.)

I think this would be a good basis for a 'fantasy football' style game, once we all agree on their specific combat capabilities (yes, even the trainers and attack craft).

I can't see the 2nd graph, but another factor is longevity in service, not just US service either.

Correct if I'm wrong, but the only aircrafts not in worldwide  service on that graph are the A-6A/E, F-111, F-117.

[Gman]

The USMC and USAF are flying at Red Flag right now, integrating both the A and B models in a battle exercise for the first time.  The USMC have really called in the clans, unlike previous EXs, they have an entire squadron, plus all the maint/support crew deployed.  Previous F35 exs they only had 4 or 6, and would typically just sortie a 2 ship a few times per day, and on rare occasion a 4 ship during previous x-Flag exercises.  Now they can simulate an entire squadron operating - Should give some more information on what a full squadron will be like under combat ops, as well as how the A and B models will work together.  Read a lot about how they are using the F35 to penetrate deep, and help target/guide weapons from assets like the B1B and other gen4+ fighters that carry more ord, once the F35 has depleted its 2 1000lb (F35B) and 2 2000lb(A) weapons.  Interesting stuff regardless on where you stand on the F35 debate.  Looks like the UK is doing the same with its future F35B on the new carriers, to work alongside their Typhies and Tor"nah"does. 

https://theaviationist.com/2017/07/13/marine-corps-air-force-f-35-jets-take-part-in-red-flag-exercise-together-for-the-first-time/

https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/1243169/exercise-red-flag-17-3-commences-in-nevada/

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/italy-uk-seek-f-35-and-typhoon-synergies

[Arlo]

I like the part where the plane handler is giving hand signals to the drone on deck (5:30)
.

[Old Sport]

"I like the part where the plane handler is giving hand signals to the drone on deck (5:30)"

That was probably for the guy up on the bridge with the flight control box.

[Nefarious]

I like the part where the plane handler is giving hand signals to the drone on deck (5:30)
.

Grummans A-6 Intruder lives on in the X47B. The Landing Gear are both from the A-6 Design, The F-35 rear wheels are also from the A-6.

Tried and True I suppose.

[Gman]

Speaking of Grumman, read an article about an all Grumman air wing on the USS Ranger right before it was retired.  Lots of A6 variants and Tomcats.   Ok, it wasn't all Grumman, but all the strike and air defense squadrons were.  So much was lost when the A6 was retired IMO - no more KA6D tanker (boo for the Navy, huge booo), soon the EA6Bs will be all gone, and then of course the medium/heavy strike capability gone.  The Supers are great, but don't have the range or payload that the A6 had.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/12452/the-uss-ranger-sailed-with-a-unique-grumman-air-wing-in-the-late-1980s