Author Topic: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?  (Read 10511 times)

Offline Zygote404

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 161
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #165 on: July 20, 2017, 04:00:32 AM »
so your saying that if a person has to pay for a plane it will make him feel better? in what world do you think that will work.
I would like it to be my choice if I want to pay for a plane.

if your having problems with the late war planes I suggest you practice and get better, than trying to get us to play this game your way.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You could also say that insisting the planes dominating the MA stay as they are that those insisting they stay as they are are trying to dictate what everyone flys to suit their needs.

no because those planes were already here/there when you started, and there is no logical reason to change them.and your wanting this to change for you.
Here we go back to the ad hominem "you're having trouble killing late war planes therefore whining about it".  No I'm not having trouble with them.  The most kills on me have been from CHog's and Ship Gunners - I haven't mentioned those at all have I?

This is not about me its about more variety in the MA, the same way we'd see hardly any of some of the models we see all the time if the perked planes were unperked.  Just the reverse.


#1: I'm an Aussie and when I log on there are usually 20 players on

so when are you mostly on? the reason I ask because I saw you on tonight wed night during US. primetime with at least 140 people on and you landing kills several times.
Depends what shift I'm doing but usually now till about 10pm Aussie time.

Offline The Fugitive

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17921
      • Fugi's Aces Help
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #166 on: July 20, 2017, 07:57:22 AM »
Here we go back to the ad hominem "you're having trouble killing late war planes therefore whining about it".  No I'm not having trouble with them.  The most kills on me have been from CHog's and Ship Gunners - I haven't mentioned those at all have I?

This is not about me its about more variety in the MA, the same way we'd see hardly any of some of the models we see all the time if the perked planes were unperked.  Just the reverse.

Depends what shift I'm doing but usually now till about 10pm Aussie time.

what is your in game name?

I think m your biggest problem is the lack of numbers. if there were 5 times the player on at your time you would have less trouble finding fights. the givers wouldn't be an issue as you would be busy fighting more A2A.

that is the main reason I'm hoping HTC hooks up with Steam, just to get the numbers back up.

Offline Zygote404

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 161
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #167 on: July 20, 2017, 08:35:38 AM »
Zigote, was Zygote but some assho took that name... me be back in 2000

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #168 on: July 20, 2017, 09:21:12 AM »
Zigote, was Zygote but some assho took that name... me be back in 2000

Actually, "zygote" is available now, if you want it.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline Zygote404

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 161
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #169 on: July 20, 2017, 09:52:42 AM »
Actually, "zygote" is available now, if you want it.
Sweet, thanks Skuzzy :)

Offline DmonSlyr

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6657
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #170 on: July 20, 2017, 10:35:57 AM »
You are projecting your own narrow gameplay preferences on everyone  else. What if many or even most weren't actually looking for 'better furballs'? How do you actually know why people left? Or better, why AH just didn't recruit enough new players, because players do leave games, even great and fun ones, all the time. What is your data base for a whopping '100%' knowledge?

Interestingly enough, we DID have such places for better furballs, the early EW & MW arenas and WWI. After the split about everyone was in EW & MW arenas first. And yet they left to return to LW. WWI was nothing but a close range furball for a month. Then players just went back to LW, never to be seen again for the most part.
If everybody just wanted the best and quickest furballs, why did they leve those places?

On the other hand, AH had all that, the hordes (even more extreme ones than today), the landgrabbing, the utter dominance of a very few 'endgame' fighters. Yet AH's number kept growing for years.

I think your view is much biased and very simplistic. It's as if I would claim "100%, the numbers are down because the central strats are gone" (which is actually my personal pet peeve).

 Your idea does seem rational at first. But you fail to acknowledge base distance and time per fight. IF the early and midwar arenas were on a smog 8 size map, it would have exponentially got more popular over time. Instead, there was about 4 fish in a giant pond of 82 bases that take 20 minutes to get to. NOT FUN FOR 5 PEOPLE. Best to start with very small map and grow as the #s increase.

Now, we are running into the same problems in the late war arena.

People do want furballs and action. Just look at your own stats of how many people choose fighters over other game types. What does that tell you? And why have so many known furballers left the game? It is too slow.

Why is it, when there's a huge group in the WW1, post get made about how exciting it is, but you cant take into consideration that quicker game play provides more fun for most people?

Do I need to start posting pictures of the map to show why fights are stalling in many places? Will that prove why there is such a lack of action?

I actually agree with your strat premise. I think that should be looked at. But realistically, most people join this game because of fighter combat, and the lack of acknowledging that, and not working on making it more actionable as the #s decrease, is the reason why #s have not regained momentum.

I disagree that light perking a few planes would make players mad. They have 34,000 perks... They could fly any plane till their heart is content, but you don't see everyone flying Tempest for a good reason. This would generally get more players in other planes besides the easiest BnZ planes in the game. The idea is to make the fights more balanced and there for more fun.

You tell me how exciting it is to see 1-2 cons or a small tiny dar, you roll off the base for about 10 minutes looking for them, only to find them at 18K in 190Ds. You wonder why people don't think that's exciting anymore?

The whole risk adverse thing is more relative to the time it takes per fight, rather than who they are fighting with.

For example. The fights in the DA that took 5 minutes to get some kills, was a lot more fun for newer players than taking 30 minutes searching for 2 190Ds at 18K and getting BnZed, then they run away at loss advantage. Lets all just roll Temps and have a pow wow shall we? The DA failed because the layout was boring, the water took too long to fix, and combining the DA with a furball arena is too big. That simple.


People do not want to spend more than 15 minutes looking for action. That is the biggest problem with the base distance and size of the current maps. Actually the map size doesn't even matter as much (with more than 60 players), but it is the base distance that makes or breaks fights in most cases. 

That is the reality. It is not biased. It is like Philosophy, I have been in the game for a long time, know 95% of the planes to the top level of performance, and fly with many top level players. I am not just throwing things out there. These are the real problems, with easy solutions, that do nothing to change the game. They are parts of the game that can be adjusted, very simple. 

You and Fugi can keep saying we need more #s to make the game play better. That is true, but doing nothing to address why the original players got tired of the game, is only going to create a bigger leak of players leaving when they all show up initially. The hole in the bucket needs to be filled. If players cannot find action within a 15 minute span of time, they just quit, and as the #s get lower, while the maps stay the same, bases stay the same distance, only makes it worse and worse.

Hear me now but understand me later.



The Damned(est. 1988)
-=Army of Muppets=-
2014 & 2018 KoTH ToC Champion

Offline bustr

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12436
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #171 on: July 20, 2017, 11:32:36 AM »

This is not about me its about more variety in the MA


Bingo, much of the root of everyone's problems right now with low numbers trying to get at the "gestalt" of the issue and how they perceive it.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline nugetx

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 628
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #172 on: July 20, 2017, 01:07:09 PM »
Quote
These are the real problems, with easy solutions, that do nothing to change the game. They are parts of the game that can be adjusted, very simple.

First perk the planes

then add the ground war to main arena

and you have eternal gameplay  :rock


« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 01:14:56 PM by nugetx »

Offline Vinkman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2884
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #173 on: July 20, 2017, 01:17:27 PM »
Vinkman, skill level does not represent the level of the plane. Each plane can be flown to a full envelope, some planes have different envelopes and perform those envelopes better than others. That's just a fact, that's the whole reason why planes got faster and faster and faster over time. Speed is king in real air combat. Agility is king in AH. This makes the Yak3 so much better than the spit based on performance. A smart pilot would not get in a stall fight yak3 vs Spit9, but in a fair 1v1, you fail to realize that the yak could simply and easily out rope the spit on the merge, every time, the spit would be in the defense the entire fight. Whether or not the spit pilot has more skill vs the yak3 pilot is not based on the pure performance of the plane. I'm sure players could run circles on me with a P40 agaisnt their spit16. Doesn't mean I wont give them a hard time, but they should have the advantage the entire time, it should be a no contest.

The MA is far different that 1v1. The MA requires a lot more in depth SA and a lot more in depth understanding of how each plane performs. A yak3 in the MA is far superior in every way compared to the spit9. They were built long before. What we are trying to say is, The fights overall would be more fun, and more close combat if everyone flew in midwar planes most of the time. A small perk on late war planes would achieve this. An ecosystem is good with sharks, but not too many. Right now, there is just too many yak3, 190Ds, and P51Ds, to run away and pick when the advantage comes, this creates poor slow game play because the fights are more drawn out.

That's all fine. But the yak has a weak gun package, and is not more agile than a spitfire. The tak is Slower than a dora, K4, La7 and mustang so it cannot engage and disengage at will in the MA. In short, it does not dominate the MA such that it needs to be perked to create balance.

Plane disparity creates fighting fairness. Your assumption is the best pilots fly the best planes. That is completely the opposite of my 10 years experience in the MA. Unless you think LilMak is gaming the system by stall fighting a jug.  HAve you never heard the time "Noob Ride" in all your years in the MA?  Because noobs need the better planes. Perking them will only create more fighting unbalance.  :salute

It's the wrong solution to a non-problem.
Who is John Galt?

Offline Hungry

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 772
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #174 on: July 20, 2017, 01:26:24 PM »
Just curious,

Why are players in the World of Warship thread more than wiling to work up to the better ships there but think its sacrilegious here? I bet Nugs would know, lol
"I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a Hamburger today"

Offline DmonSlyr

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6657
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #175 on: July 20, 2017, 01:53:24 PM »
Just curious,

Why are players in the World of Warship thread more than wiling to work up to the better ships there but think its sacrilegious here? I bet Nugs would know, lol


Its called the liberal mentality where poor hopeless noobs don't have a real chance because of the big bad long time players who understand the game.

Better just release the Temps so they have a chance.... Running away is obviously more beneficial to noobs than getting them to actually fight.
The Damned(est. 1988)
-=Army of Muppets=-
2014 & 2018 KoTH ToC Champion

Offline Hungry

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 772
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #176 on: July 20, 2017, 02:02:41 PM »

Its called the liberal mentality where poor hopeless noobs don't have a real chance because of the big bad long time players who understand the game.

Better just release the Temps so they have a chance.... Running away is obviously more beneficial to noobs than getting them to actually fight.

I don't get it, I've played those games, sticking your neck out time after time and fighting for your life when your new is half the fun to getting better at least in those games, I guess not this one.
"I would gladly pay you Tuesday for a Hamburger today"

Offline nugetx

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 628
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #177 on: July 20, 2017, 02:06:09 PM »
Just curious,

Why are players in the World of Warship thread more than wiling to work up to the better ships there but think its sacrilegious here? I bet Nugs would know, lol

Sense of progression which can be found in role-playing games, where the character archetype gets stronger and stronger as he progresses through the game. It is the sense of journey, adventure, odyssey which you are hero of.

In case of world of warship getting a 'better' ship without the story, just grinding to be 'stronger'.

It is the same as people go to the gym, they grind their muscles at the gym.

Imagine if everyone had arnold schwarzenneger muscles and no one would have to work for those muscles, they would mean nothing and it would mean nothing to be a 'strong man'.

That is why serving everything on platter is bad - no work - no fun - means nothing.


I would be more happy to fly that p51 if first I would have to fly that spit 1 and then p40, because then I would know I accomplished something in the world of Aces High, meaning I must be a ok pilot, not only using a few learned gimmicks of a specific plane to 'own' others. What is the fun in that?

New players come to AH, they take instantly p51 and get destroyed by vets in p51 and they have no incentive to get better, because they already have 'the best' plane so they don't have anything to strive for to get better, and they quit.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 02:34:06 PM by nugetx »

Offline waystin2

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10165
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #178 on: July 20, 2017, 03:06:21 PM »


New players come to AH, they take instantly p51 and get destroyed by vets in p51 and they have no incentive to get better, because they already have 'the best' plane so they don't have anything to strive for to get better, and they quit.
Do you have evidence to back this statement up?  Sounds pretty subjective, especially come from a two week free trialer.
CO for the Pigs On The Wing
& The nicest guy in Aces High!

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Why the disparity between aircraft and vehicle perks?
« Reply #179 on: July 20, 2017, 03:09:46 PM »
Do you have evidence to back this statement up?  Sounds pretty subjective, especially come from a two week free trialer.

Of course he doesn't, just like Violator doesn't have any evidence to back up his statements either.  Both are making wishes for their own desire, not for the game.
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song