M3 Effectiveness.....

[Arlo]

Why do you have a picture of a commercial airliner???

It was time for a commercial.

[JunkyII]

You?
Did you complain about troops being temporarily disabled for the m3?

Look at the context of my post

Looking back it still looks like you were talking about both sides.

[Lusche]

For you, Junky:

In the strategy of any business, NEVER, NEVER, take something away.

Cave in to the whiners.   


Sad.

Who was whining about troops in the M3? Or are you just being dramatic?[/b]

I'm afraid they all just are.
In the beginning I was just thinking I might have been missing the point, which can easily happen in such a complex game.
But none of them ever replied to my direct questions, neither in game nor in the various treads, what exactly they can't do anymore, so that they "have given up on base capturing" or are going to leave. All just exclamations and lamentations, no real arguments or points given, no questions answered.

Should  be pretty obvious it's only about the troops in the M3, and the people complaining about this test

[JunkyII]

For you, Junky:



Should  be pretty obvious it's only about the troops in the M3, and the people complaining about this test

I'm afraid they all just are....keyword all which makes the rest read like all in the discussion which would include both sides...

[Lusche]

I'm afraid they all just are....keyword all which makes the rest read like all in the discussion which would include both sides...

No, all those  who complain about the troops. Read the context of the discussion in the quotes. It was about the troops thing exclusively.

It's not always about YOU 

[JunkyII]

No, all those  who complain about the troops. Read the context of the discussion in the quotes. It was about the troops thing exclusively.

It's not always about YOU 

I'm not saying it's about me but the word all in there does make it read like you are talking about everyone...so I'm correcting you for correcting me

[molybdenum]

That's OK, I never got a twitter account or lived in my text buffer and self lobotomized like the last 2 generations.

It should have worked except our M3's were never challenged so all the SdK's they kept sending eventually were making the 3 mile run for nothing. The M3's risked nothing and screwed almost 30 guys out of a well planned and executed mission. What becomes the point of resurrecting well planned missions if a single finger salute is all it takes to screw all of that effort instead of a spirited defense? Any hole in the game play like this is found and leveraged to the hilt because it's not against the rules, and this one gives a single guy playing energizer bunny in an M3 control over the risk and efforts of nearly 30 guys. Just like the HQ being kept down all the time that Hitech changed it's down time and hardness to address.

It's a similar species to allowing a single player to single finger salute control the evening's outcomes of a whole country. Without an equal effort and risk commiserate to that many players inflicting that on another country in the same short period of time.   

"One single guy?" Seriously? You're saying one guy with an m3 resupping was able to thwart the effort of "nearly 30" (yeah, right) guys?
It is NOT a "single finger salute" to resup (or to hit strats)." M3s are very easily killed, as is the VH they spawn from. Put one of these "nearly 30" guys on m3 patrol and another one on VH duty and this problem you imagine will go away. It was not a "well planned and executed" mission if the inevitable m3 resup issue was not addressed. Instead, apparently, everyone wanted to do the fun destructive work of leveling town and quashing uppers instead of doing the basic, less exciting support work that would have made the mission succeed. And now you kinda talk out of both sides of your mouth when you say the mission was well planned but blame the people who saw and exploited the flaw in the plan.

Trying to make other people play they way you want them to, even if successful, leads to dissatisfaction amongst the people so forced. How is this beneficial to the AH community as a whole?

And as a side note (as I have said before), thanks for building maps for the community. We need more of them. But your latest creation (Bowl) is my least favorite precisely for the issue you're currently unhappy about: it almost demands players to resup vs fight. Less than 4 minutes to run an m3 to resup the strat that it took a guy the better part of an hour to reach? Towns and guns down less time because the strat that's affected by them is usually up? Resup (of both strat and individual targets) is the smart thing to do, but also the boring thing. But people who care about the big picture will do the boring thing to help the team.

[bustr]

Players during prime time fight and don't worry about other things, that was the point of the terrain, and it works. If anything, it forces a spotlight on how the M3 is being used per Junky's observations. It stands out like a sore thumb so to say because of the terrain.

[Lazerr]

"One single guy?" Seriously? You're saying one guy with an m3 resupping was able to thwart the effort of "nearly 30" (yeah, right) guys?
It is NOT a "single finger salute" to resup (or to hit strats)." M3s are very easily killed, as is the VH they spawn from. Put one of these "nearly 30" guys on m3 patrol and another one on VH duty and this problem you imagine will go away. It was not a "well planned and executed" mission if the inevitable m3 resup issue was not addressed. Instead, apparently, everyone wanted to do the fun destructive work of leveling town and quashing uppers instead of doing the basic, less exciting support work that would have made the mission succeed. And now you kinda talk out of both sides of your mouth when you say the mission was well planned but blame the people who saw and exploited the flaw in the plan.

Trying to make other people play they way you want them to, even if successful, leads to dissatisfaction amongst the people so forced. How is this beneficial to the AH community as a whole?

And as a side note (as I have said before), thanks for building maps for the community. We need more of them. But your latest creation (Bowl) is my least favorite precisely for the issue you're currently unhappy about: it almost demands players to resup vs fight. Less than 4 minutes to run an m3 to resup the strat that it took a guy the better part of an hour to reach? Towns and guns down less time because the strat that's affected by them is usually up? Resup (of both strat and individual targets) is the smart thing to do, but also the boring thing. But people who care about the big picture will do the boring thing to help the team.

You leave out variables such as multiple spawns in.. amount of ground defense.. aerial defense.

Also fyi.. there is typically multiple m3s working a resup.  It takes them under 5 minutes to drop a box and reup.

Maybe I should get an air spawn over their spawn?   

Nobody has a hard time killing m3's.. but the effectivness and its impact on base defense is silly.

[bustr]

Hey now!!

The spawn distance was a trade off to get Gvers to feel good about getting into combat versus bushwhacking for ever to get ambushed or bombed which would have added only a few minutes to the M3's transit time. I stop watched tanks and M3s, and erred on the side of trying to help tankers want to get into a fight at 7 minutes from spawn to town flag pole. 7 minutes was all I had any patience for personally. So by accident it show cases the out of proportion role the M3 has in the game to dictate outcomes of base assaults.

[1stpar3]

Just for the record and coming from "A RESUPPER", I agree that the resup is a bit too easy. You dont have to be in town to resup the WHOLE town any more. You dont even need to be all that close,even close to perimeter road, works to re sup towns.WE ALL KNOW THIS or AT LEAST SHOULD KNOW,by now! I do however believe the SPEED at which M3s can reach towns is due to all the WHINES about tree collisions. YES it was a problem for a lot of folk,but it did slow down the resup at times. Now I barely have to hit breaks at all. Its seems to me, it is an accumulation of early fixes to old WHINES. For me, resup is at times the best use of my time,say against capped fields with VH dead and guns dead. I refuse to get killed trying to up over and over just to have it LORDED over me by the vultures that I suck. I am NOT the best fighter pilot in game and I know it, so I tend to look for the BEST WAY I can have an impact for my side. Resup is a valid game play strategy, for that exact reason. The vultures will circle the field if one or two others are trying to up, leaving me wide open to reach town. WHAT GOOD am I if I just try to up and give easy kills? Most of the times I AM successful with my resup saving a base,is due to lack of organization of attackers. IF they concentrated on town BEFORE they tried to get guns and field vultch ready...I would be too late even with resup to save the base. Then again THAT will receive the HORDE LABEL on 200, which hurts attacking forces egos. Some folk just hate losing losing fields and could care less about scores or how its done. If you want uppers, hit town with your first attack. Guns tend to give a sense of comfort on the runway! True or not, that they seem to be ineffective, its just how it is. When smash and grabs dont work, there is more than likely a great furball that developes. Yes,in a way I am saying play MY WAY. I see it as more of a ADJUST YOUR WAY though   This is NOT AH2, for whatever reason game play is diffrent! We all have had to adjust to changes. What worked yesterday may not work tomorrow! It just seems like noone wants to change! Its human nature I guess. I am just not that set in my ways and dont have the experiences that some of you have had in this game? It is fixable though,just have to recognize that sometimes the problems YOU HAVE...are because OF YOU. Be the change. I can GUARANTEE one thing for sure,THIS FORUM is best place for these discussions, NOT on 200 in game. This last month or so, a FEW of the LOUDEST COMPLAINTANTS have spammed up text buffer for hours arguing about this. THAT IS A GAME KILLER. Why would anyone want to invest time and effort to learn this game if all you see is "THIS GAME SUCKS" or "HIGH TECH OBVIOUSLY DOESNT CARE" or "THIS GAME IS DEAD" all over the text buffer? Knock it off! Come on guys, you are better than that

[SPKmes]

For me I like to defend...sometime though I am the only one who likes to defend.... not much you can do when you have a capped field and the scare factor of letting one guy get wheels up to face 5,6,7,8 fighters plus any GV's wirbs,tanks that are already in town and defend the base causes a vulch fest....bring out a wirb you say....same deal....even if there are a couple of you upping, two planes working together can neuter a wirb with ease....get a GV there...well by the time you get that underway there is three M3's releasing troops...so what happens... ah well... have it is the answer...we will do the same thing to your team over there....So I will try resup....just to give me more time to cry on channel for help (even this has got harder...Damn trees...I envy you touch typists during these times) or break the hearts of the attackers....The fact that I can even get close when there are so many red guys amazes me sometimes.....

I do think resup is a little too powerful.... not 100% on this but the resup power is the same whether the base is at 30mins or 90mins down (strat full up or partially down) ? ... I do feel that it should be based on percentages as there is a set amount it comes up when strat is 100%... this time (going by how it is now could be dropped) and from there as the strat goes down the amount a box fixes is increased till you get to a maximum time. At 30mins...you can really get a town up fast which is possibly the bugbear when it comes to this part of the game... when strats are down you need an army of M3's to bring it up....which if you have town down shouldn't be able to stop a take unless the group is really unorganised...like a certain chess  piece that won't be mentioned here, that floats around like a dropped stitch in grandmas Knitting. hahaha

[Dundee]

For me I like to defend...sometime though I am the only one who likes to defend.... not much you can do when you have a capped field and the scare factor of letting one guy get wheels up to face 5,6,7,8 fighters plus any GV's wirbs,tanks that are already in town and defend the base causes a vulch fest....bring out a wirb you say....same deal....even if there are a couple of you upping, two planes working together can neuter a wirb with ease....get a GV there...well by the time you get that underway there is three M3's releasing troops...so what happens... ah well... have it is the answer...we will do the same thing to your team over there....So I will try resup....just to give me more time to cry on channel for help (even this has got harder...Damn trees...I envy you touch typists during these times) or break the hearts of the attackers....The fact that I can even get close when there are so many red guys amazes me sometimes.....

I do think resup is a little too powerful.... not 100% on this but the resup power is the same whether the base is at 30mins or 90mins down (strat full up or partially down) ? ... I do feel that it should be based on percentages as there is a set amount it comes up when strat is 100%... this time (going by how it is now could be dropped) and from there as the strat goes down the amount a box fixes is increased till you get to a maximum time. At 30mins...you can really get a town up fast which is possibly the bugbear when it comes to this part of the game... when strats are down you need an army of M3's to bring it up....which if you have town down shouldn't be able to stop a take unless the group is really unorganised...like a certain chess  piece that won't be mentioned here, that floats around like a dropped stitch in grandmas Knitting. hahaha

I might remind you that the resup time when AH3 was launched was 30 min........which meant  6 resup's would have brought up a strat to 100%....almost before the bombers got out of the sector. There were complaints about the resup time so it was changed to 10 min. which it is what it is now.....why have we not gone to what it was in AH 2 the resup was set at 4 min. a drop........and if  this M3 business was all about re supping why were the troops taken away and not the Cargo option..........?

[Lusche]

.and if  this M3 business was all about re supping why were the troops taken away and not the Cargo option..........?

Because it's not a permament measure, but about gathering data about the M3's usage for resupply.

[Dundee]

Vehicles and planes are separate groups for the Sortie %
Name        Sortie %   
M-3                    35.91%
Wirbelwind             18.41%
T-34/85                 6.70%
Panzer IV H            13.33%

Since I guess I was hijacking another thread figured I'll start my own....

M3s make up almost identically as much and the next 2 vehicle sorties combined.

While in an M3, players aren't actively engaged in ANY form of combat(no sense arguing that it is, just ignorant if you think an M3 resembles any sort of combat in Aces High)

What they do, is make it so defenders dont have to engage in combat against an enemy to hold a field.

The war for the map generates combat by the progression of taking and losing fields.

My personal thoughts, remove town resupply completely, make it a standard 45 minute down time on town and make cargo trucks/trains/barges more valuable to defend.

OK when are we going to get troops back in the M3...after all the Meta Data collection....the GV'er want to know. one guy shines and they have to change the game